The right of way

[UrCaptainSpekin]

Ok, guys, I must come down unequivocally, firmly, without reservation, on both sides of this issue. The problem is not a lack of concrete per metal flying machine. It’s not even a lack of airspace per se. It’s a matter of density plus a lack of compatibility. When everybody is doing 210 kts in the pattern and 180 kts over the marker, they can be packed in pretty tight. But if one of those dudes needs 70 kts on final, it throws a giant monkey wrench into the works.

I’ve been the guy in the 747 that had to go around (blowing 10,000 pounds of gas out the tailpipe) for the C-172 who wouldn’t (or couldn’t) keep his speed up. And I’ve been the guy in the Cessna who had to hold for an hour waiting for a big enough gap between the heavies. There is no easy answer. In the meantime, maybe it’s best, when you are flying light, to stay out of the big, busy airports. Not because you have no right to be there, but because it’s a lot less hassle for everybody.

And BTW, I knew a nice Delta pilot once. Of course he did quit and took a job with Wal Mart.

[G-man]

There is no easy answer. In the meantime, maybe it’s best, when you are flying light, to stay out of the big, busy airports. Not because you have no right to be there, but because it’s a lot less hassle for everybody.

Or pick the quiet times of day......

Of course, me, I just hover or sidestep out of the way, if only Y'all in your cesna's could do the same............

Awaiting my "asskicking......"

[Frank N. O.]

Ok, guys, I must come down unequivocally, firmly, without reservation, on both sides of this issue. The problem is not a lack of concrete per metal flying machine. It’s not even a lack of airspace per se. It’s a matter of density plus a lack of compatibility. When everybody is doing 210 kts in the pattern and 180 kts over the marker, they can be packed in pretty tight. But if one of those dudes needs 70 kts on final, it throws a giant monkey wrench into the works.

I’ve been the guy in the 747 that had to go around (blowing 10,000 pounds of gas out the tailpipe) for the C-172 who wouldn’t (or couldn’t) keep his speed up. And I’ve been the guy in the Cessna who had to hold for an hour waiting for a big enough gap between the heavies. There is no easy answer. In the meantime, maybe it’s best, when you are flying light, to stay out of the big, busy airports. Not because you have no right to be there, but because it’s a lot less hassle for everybody.

And BTW, I knew a nice Delta pilot once. Of course he did quit and took a job with Wal Mart.

Very very good post I must say! Good easy-to-understand facts, clear and friendly language and clearly showing, and knowing, the difference between principle and reality, what one is allowed to do, and what is a good idea in real life under the circumstances. I'd feel very bad about having a 747 behind me if I was in a small slow airplane, giving it and all aboard trouble so I don't think I'd ever try to land at a big airport unless I really had a reason, and preferably a bird that would be a bit more practical than a slow Cessna. The pilot who gave me my sadly so far only flight, said they'd taken the F177RG (Reims-built Cardinal) we were flying in to a large airport in Europe and the controllers were happy that they could manage 120 kts until shortly before landing so they didn't have to push the jets too far back, with the speeds you list for a slower Cessna and for the large jets I can now really understand/believe that. I also now more than ever want speed-brakes on a plane I'm going to fly since they could possibly help a lot.

I was wondering though, in the series then Roost Air uses small planes to deliver small pakcages, could such a company ever exist in real life where a costumer would insist of delivery at a major airport? Realistically I'd say that both the company and the costumer would be much better off to use a smaller airport, also for the practical side of getting the package from the plane to the costumer's hands and for the costumer to get away from the airport again (getting in and out of the parkinglot area and the roadnet is probably a lot bigger and more time-consuming than at a smaller airport that could also be cloer to the costumer since there are more small airports than big ones, at least here in Denmark).

Greetings
Frank

[Baradium]

Scorp, way too many of them ARE that brainwashed!  

In my travels in California and elsewhere, I am constantly re-routed to stay clear of airline traffic, and I am held to lower cruising altitudes than I used to routinely use in order to accomodate airline traffic.  This in a system that is supposed to be "First come, First served".  I am afraid that policy actually went by the wayside around 15 years ago, and now the system is "Airlines are first amoung equals" although the first statement is official policy.

There is something to be said about the superior "snotty" attitude exhibited by many airline pilots, and I am glad Mike and Stef decided to tackle it in their cartoon.  Many of them have this overblown image of themselves and greatly exaggerate their importance to everyone around them.  Management's view of them is much closer to the reality; they are expensive Bus Drivers that drive a Bus with Wings.

Of course we are....

Give me enough bananas, and I'll teach a monkey to do their job.   

Ouch.


That same monkey could do your job as well, so lay off please.  That bus driver thing is true, this is not only a lie but it's incredibly demeaning.


Keep in mind that most of the RJs you see flying around are being flown by pilots making near minimum wage.  And that's a substantial amount of todays airline traffic.   I guess you aren't worth any more than that either... after all, a monkey could do it.   Your job just as easily.

Most airline pilots are actually on your side on this issue.  But stuff like this won't help.


Just because you come across some pilots who have an attitude doesn't mean they all are like that.   I've seen GA pilots as stuck up as the snobbiest airline pilot I've ever come across,  but I don't make remarks about corporate pilots because some of them don't want to be associated with us "bus drivers."   And I've seen the exact same attitude from corporate pilots about the guys in the light singles as well.  But that's different then isn't it?  Because then it's only a little cessna?

Just becuase ATC reroutes you for the airlines doesn't mean that the airline pilots asked for it.  That's ATC, you want to complain about it talk to Chris (undatc).   I haven't ever asked and I've never heard of an airline pilot asking to get priority.   There are some who expect it... and there are corporate guys who do too.

[Rooster Cruiser]

...BTW just for knowledge sake, Flight Levels start at 180 

Only in the USA.  Other countries start flight levels at different altitudes.

[Stef]

Please, everybody! Don't start fighting now!

Don't call each other bus drivers or monkeys! Show some respect! (to bus drivers and monkeys!    )

It's a little bit like car traffic, isn't it? (not exactly, but a bit) You try to avoid rush hour when all the roads are blocked with trucks and buses, but when you're stuck, you can't really blame the truck or bus drivers. After all they're just doing their job. A different thing altogether would be if all passenger cars would have to use the right lane and the rest would be open exclusively to buses and trucks, right?

Now I know it's a bad analogy, because the airliners are faster than the GA planes, but you get the point, right? We know there's no easy solution, because if there was, they would probably have solved the problem already.

It's great that we can hear about this issue from so different viewpoints in here! But please stay civilized! 

[Stef]

This one is for all of you:

Sorry that I can't draw any better!

Awesome!! Haha! That is funny!! 

If we ever start hiring artists or gag writers, we will approach you first! 

[The Dancing Bear]

Ok, EVERYBODY , take a step back, admit Stef has a valid point ,& make nice again. Or us maintenance guys will take the carb / fuel control off your airy machines & hide them till you do !

[Frank N. O.]

Uhm, did I say something wrong? I thought the Captain's post was really good, with great points to actually enhance the understand across the board and give information to help get the real world moving better for all and that's what I tried to express in my post.

Frank

[Mike]

I thought it was great to see an airline captains point of view, especially since we are more on the GA side.
Didn't look to me like anybody was fighting....

But I also want to stress the fact again, that the strip was intended to target Delta and their anti-GA campaign and not to start and airline"pilots" vs. GA"pilots".
I actually see little airliner/GA interaction everywhere I usually go. That's why we were surprised to see Delta blame GA for it's delays.

Lot's of the big airports have small satelites we can fly into so there shouldn't be anybody insisting on flying the ILS into LAX when he can easily fly into Hawthorne or Santa Monica and and get a better fuel price on top of that!

The problem is not a lack of concrete per metal flying machine. It’s not even a lack of airspace per se. It’s a matter of density plus a lack of compatibility. When everybody is doing 210 kts in the pattern and 180 kts over the marker, they can be packed in pretty tight. But if one of those dudes needs 70 kts on final, it throws a giant monkey wrench into the works.

Captain Ed, would you agree though that a lot of delays really are a result of airline scheduling?
Just wanted to get some input from the industry....

Good to see you in our forum, btw!!