Question about airline service interval stretching and whistleblowers

[Frank N. O.]

I asked Mike at first in case this was a sensitive subject but he said I could post as he didn't know the situation that well.
In the tv-program 60 Minutes last year I happend to see a segment on people called whistleblowers, people who report dangerous lacks in service and repair on airliners but as a thanks are not only fired but banned from the entire aviation comunity because of it, surely this can't be real can it, both the stretching of service-intervals far beyond factory specs to save money and banning people who call out to save people's lives can it?

One example shown said that the time between service for what I think was a part of the manouvrering mechanism was extended nothing less than 400%, meaning instead of being serviced lets say every 1000 flying hours it was serviced or just checked every 4000 hours, and the listed time was way over the factory specified time.

I know the business is in deep trouble, but these are people's lives, passengers and pilots, and the whole airplane and anything and anyone they might crash on and history has shown many times that service is not something to skimp on with planes, or helicopters, they can't just coast to a stop like a car, and even a car can't do that well if the part that breaks is say a suspension-part.

Frank

[FlyingBlind]

This is a serious subject.Its almost the same as buying a used car, that the salesman turns the distance meter behind about 20 thousand kilometers.But this has indeed things to do with peoples lives! I can't say or do anything because i haven't concentrated into the matter myself....

(Incase you are wondering - YES I READ THROUGH THE TEXT! )

[chuckar101]

I think I saw part of the program you were talking about.  It was the very end when the reporter was summarizing it.  Scary thought but you would think that organizations like the FAA would catch that in most cases.

[Stef]

Hmm... The root of this problem is a perfect example of one could call "the inner conflict of consumers". I think it's terrible that things like this happen. But when faced with the option of paying 400.00 for a ticket instead of 500.00, I am pretty sure what decision I would make...

[Sleek-Jet]

OK... now we all know how knowlegable the media is when it comes to all thing aviation... 

Did the 60 Minutes piece explain that there are ways to stretch replacemant and inspection intervals, and it's both legal and safe???  Alot of time between overhaul or replacemant time frames are based on initial service experiance.  As airframes age and are in the fleet, things become appearant as to what wears out faster and what doesn't.  Parts and mechanisms that were scheduled to be inspected/replaced at 400 hours prove (through service history) that they can last much longer and therfore don't need to be replaced as often.

Also, airlines do not have to follow the manufacturers recomendation on times/procedures if they can prove an alternate form of compliance to the FAA. 

That's the probelm with "Whistleblowers"... some (not all) are disgruntled and are looking at a way to get back at the "company".  And the media loves a juicy scary story to tell the public.  And if someone comes foward with allegations and those turn out to be either out and out lies, or not the entire truth then yeah, they deserve to get black listed.  Also, they are counting on the ignorance of the public to make a big splash.   

I worked with a guy that everytime the boss got on his case, he was going to go the FAA and "blow the whistle".  Don't know if he ever did, but there are people out there like that.

[Gulfstream Driver]

I didn't see this piece, but I always take anything done by these "news" programs with a grain of salt.  They always seem to be more interested in ratings than actually reporting an ethical story, especially when it comes to aviation.  There was an incident shortly after 9/11 where a local news reporter (I forget where) actually jumped an airport fence to prove how inadequate airport security was.  He was promptly arrested.   

Carriers do not like accidents, and every carrier in the world except Qantas has had one.  Accidents are lessons to everyone.  Sometimes the lesson is hard to learn, but there is a teachable moment in every one.  Carriers, the NTSB, and the FAA are very good at learning from mistakes.

[Frank N. O.]

Ah good, I also did find it strange that the authorities, FAA etc. didn't notice it, especially after that show, and there are sadly several people that would make stuff up to try and get even in their mind, ok I'll take it a little more easy since other examples of lack of service that caused accidents were reported to have had strong consequences and changes. Also I do know that developments in service and upgraded parts can be made to improve an original factory design (for almost anything, not just planes), but it requires special testing to make sure it really works and I don't remember such a thing mentioned in the segment.

Speaking of 9/11 and media manipulation, did you see the clip shortly after the incident with people from the middle-east cheering? It was later said they didn't even know the planes had crashed, the cameraman had just given them some candy to cheer and then misused the videoclip. Real hatred and problems are bad enough, trying to fake a bigger worse mood is just plain despicable regardless who does it (I hope I spelled that correctly). Speaking of 9/11 then I seem to remember a danish reporter succesfully getting a knife into a plane, or maybe it was a fake bomb or such, probably at Kastrup (Copenhagen, EKCH) Airport.

I always thought 60 Minutes was a serious program but maybe being owned by a giant network can force them to edit their content as well, I often wonder who has the biggest power to influence people in western-style countries, the goverment or the media.

Thanks for making me get some trust in the system, I know that no system is perfect, but at least originally the rules are made to protect and help, not to limit and bother, even though some situations for some people might make it seem like it. Greetings
Frank

[Gulfstream Driver]

Programs like 60 Minutes, Dateline, etc. are serious news programs.  But, they also like to scare people because it produces more ratings.  Especially when it comes to aviation, where there is a limited population of people who can talk inteligently about the subject.  And even if they do find someone knowlegable that can speak about a subject, quotes are often taken out of context.  AOPA has a whole section devoted to talking to the media and making sure stories aren't one sided when they air. 

[Frank N. O.]

That's sad to hear, the programs may get ratings, but they create big problems based on lies. I'm glad to hear the AOPA at least seem to do an effort to try and stop the lies, at least that's how I understood what you wrote.

You're also right that many people seem to complain about flying on airliners, clearly based on people not understanding just how much has to be done to make changes. The english tv-show "Airport" from various airliners and offices at Heathrow Airport was a fantastic program, "Airline" based around Easy-Jet however was horrible, it may be a cheap airline and people has to be read the rules, but some of those people there seem so rude even if they are pushed sometimes though, I just don't like to see arguments and such, even though I know they exist of course, but if I'm not involved, it'll only bother me if I get involved.

Frank

[Gulfstream Driver]

There's a program in America called "Airline" centered around Southwest.  I think it's a great program, and don't feel at all sorry for passengers who miss flights or are too drunk to fly.  I do feel sorry for the poor ticket agents that have to explain why no one can fly because of the blinding snowstorm outside.  I think people check their brains with their luggage sometimes.

[Firegirl]

There's a program in America called "Airline" centered around Southwest. 

I've seen this show.  It's amazing what passengers do........I think you're right they check their brains in with their luggage.  It takes a some a lot of skill and patients to work in customer service.

[Gulfstream Driver]

It takes a some a lot of skill and patients to work in customer service.

I could never do it.  I'm sure I'd be fired for yelling at the customers.

[Frank N. O.]

Just to be on the safe side, the staff I said I disliked was not airline staff in general, but regarding an isolated incident I think I saw on the show, and that was also just one person, but on the other hand, I generally can't stand aggression and angry people and that's what a lot of that show was about so maybe it was the whole show I disliked, so just to make sure I didn't get misunderstood then I'd like to make clear that I do know that airline staff are not unreasonable but that passengers normally either didn't prepare well enough or something happend that is neither person's fault and that airline staff only act on the guidelines set after a lot of experinece and planning on how to get things working and that they usually try their utmost to help passengers, or at least that's what I think. In fact I know that most staff one talk to is not personally responsible for your problems with a product etc. and even if they were I will not yell at them but try to be polite since they are human and I don't want to be angry but rather be friendly and polite, it usually goes a lot better for both involved as well.

About passenger complaints then another argument that strikes me is when people say: The plane is still standing right there why can't we get onboard? I don't know that much in detail about flight planning (at least not yet) but I know that a plane has to be balanced to fly both at the planned speed and not to use extra fuel which again has to be filled on and that again, probably, changes the cog etc. etc. and then there's the bagage that has to be checked, transported and packed, then there's the risk of getting delayed for the place in the departure airways etc. Those are all very good reasons as to why they can't get onboard isn't that correct? And possibly there are even more points I don't know about or didn't remember.

Frank

[Gulfstream Driver]

Let's see if I remember how this works.  Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong. 

Most of the planning is done before the plane even arrives at the airport.  They know how many people are booked, and can estimate how many bags there will be, how much weight they're carrying, etc.  (You know that all Americans weigh 150 pounds, right?    )  As people are getting on the plane, the bags are being thrown on and counted, and the tanks are filled.  Then, before they leave, the final weight is calculated and that number goes into their flight profiles, which are charts with altitudes and airspeeds that must be flown, or risk a crash. 

Frank, I doubt that anyone misunderstood you.  You tend to explain yourself very well.  And you're right.  Most of the passengers at the airport are knowledgable and handle themselves well.  It's always the train wrecks that make it on TV.