Author Topic: uvsc?  (Read 20948 times)

Offline Turbomallard

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2007, 07:15:33 PM »
Having wasted waaay too much of my life on university technology committees while serving on the faculty here, I'm guessing that cost is more than just the machine and probably includes whatever site license fees you have for software (the big M) along with other things such as fees they're using to pay for wireless infrastructure, etc.   ::type::  Government funding for higher ed is not what it used to be, and we're having to find other ways to pay for things (my own institution lost 25% of our funding in five years... no raises or cost of living increases of any kind for over two years, high tuition hikes etc.). The only place worse to be than education is in the airline industry right now!  ::loony::

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Offline Gulfstream Driver

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2007, 07:40:59 PM »
Wow... must be *some* laptop.

I can get a pretty well spec'd one brand new for about that. geez.


I was a freshman the first year of that program.  We started out with crappy Dells, and then after a year switched to even crappier Gateways.  After we switched, Dell got really good at making computers.  The reason the fees are so high is because of all the programs UND has to buy, such as (at the time) Jeppesen's Flitestar, which was a really cool program, but we only used it for one class.  The most I used it was playing cribbage online with my girlfriend during class.
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline undatc

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2007, 09:44:17 PM »

I was a freshman the first year of that program.  We started out with crappy Dells, and then after a year switched to even crappier Gateways.  After we switched, Dell got really good at making computers.  The reason the fees are so high is because of all the programs UND has to buy, such as (at the time) Jeppesen's Flitestar, which was a really cool program, but we only used it for one class.  The most I used it was playing cribbage online with my girlfriend during class.

Yea, the laptop is completely worthless to me as an ATC major as there is no software for us on there.  They are "talking" about putting the radar sim on the laptops, but it would require us to dual boot them with linux, and Dell says they cant do that.  I brought my laptop to the head of the department, already running dual boot with several OS' on it.  Mainly the cost is for all the software as you've said.  They bought all this nifty stuff, but even commercial majors dont use it, as the instructors here make them do everything by hand anyway, so why have all the stuff and then not even be able to use it?

Aviation is UND's cash cow.  The former director for the ATC department was telling us a few weeks ago that aviation brings in over $35 million a year in pure profit that goes straight to the University, the aviation department by law is only able to keep something like 12 million a year in profit to update its stuff, so instead they stick us with more 'user fees'.
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...

Offline spacer

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2007, 12:13:24 AM »
Wow. I ran XP and Fedora Core on my last laptop (may TRON rest its soul), and it did pretty well. I guess it's a company thing with Dell, or an agreement with MicroShaft.

Have you tried the ATC feature on Flight Simulator X? I hear it's pretty good, though I wouldn't know much about that.

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2007, 02:24:47 AM »
No offense guys, but I'm not very impressed with UND the more I hear about how this stuff works there....

There's no reason for them to make you rent the laptop.  They *could* allow you to rent one or buy one, as they have to get the licenses for the programs anyway... really sounds like just an excuse to get the money.


Anyway, just got back today from driving the Alcan...  3200 or 3300 miles or some such in 4.5 days...  oh, and kinda accidentally bought a truck in Delta Junction...  blast... I knew better than to stop and talk to that guy.  At least it's only 90 miles away.   

Edit:  Not like a bought a new vehicle or anything.  $800 for a '69 IH travelette in good condition.
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
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Offline undatc

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2007, 05:23:56 AM »
Wow. I ran XP and Fedora Core on my last laptop (may TRON rest its soul), and it did pretty well. I guess it's a company thing with Dell, or an agreement with MicroShaft.

Have you tried the ATC feature on Flight Simulator X? I hear it's pretty good, though I wouldn't know much about that.


I want to try it, but casee spending 50+ bucks on a game that if i don't like the interface, is basicly of no use to me.


No offense guys, but I'm not very impressed with UND the more I hear about how this stuff works there....

There's no reason for them to make you rent the laptop.  They *could* allow you to rent one or buy one, as they have to get the licenses for the programs anyway... really sounds like just an excuse to get the money.



UND Aerospace does a lot of good things, they just have to support the rest of campus because the ND legislature wont.  Most of the time they do an extremely excellent job, and from the personal accounts of several people that have gone to other aviation colleges, this seems to be the best, and I KNOW its the best for ATC.
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...

Offline spacer

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2007, 02:22:01 PM »
FS9 is about $19 at Walmart right now, and the interface is whatever you make of it. It's also only a game if you treat it that way. Many folks use it as a tool to aid their training, and probably one of the least expensive tools out there.

As for schools... the more separation I can get from the government, the better. I spent 12 years in 'public' indoctrination kamps, and I'm not impressed. If my wife would allow it, I would homeschool Zoe, but will likely have to settle for a private school. Unfortunately, most private schools operate under the oppressive Prussian model, just like Ze Publik Skrewels.

Offline Gulfstream Driver

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2007, 02:42:28 PM »
No offense guys, but I'm not very impressed with UND the more I hear about how this stuff works there....

There's no reason for them to make you rent the laptop.  They *could* allow you to rent one or buy one, as they have to get the licenses for the programs anyway... really sounds like just an excuse to get the money.


Anyway, just got back today from driving the Alcan...  3200 or 3300 miles or some such in 4.5 days...  oh, and kinda accidentally bought a truck in Delta Junction...  blast... I knew better than to stop and talk to that guy.  At least it's only 90 miles away.   

Edit:  Not like a bought a new vehicle or anything.  $800 for a '69 IH travelette in good condition.

You can use your own laptop, but UND discourages it because it won't have "their" programs.  They would want you to buy all the programs that you "need".  At least, this was the case a few years ago.
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2007, 07:07:11 PM »
You can use your own laptop, but UND discourages it because it won't have "their" programs.  They would want you to buy all the programs that you "need".  At least, this was the case a few years ago.

At least then you can get away with only buying programs if/as you need them...
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline undatc

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2007, 07:45:05 PM »
I know now you have to rent it, no longer an option to use your own, as I wanted to use my own, so now I have 3 computers kicking around my room...
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...

Offline spacer

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2007, 08:43:43 PM »
Ah, my original post may as well go into dev/null now.
I just learned that my old school is now offering a flight program. No messing around with getting paperwork sorted and sent, and it uses
the same flight school here that uvsc does, anyway. Oh, and tuition is about half as much, though the flight costs will obviously be about the same.
I'm going to test out of ground school if they'll let me, though... at least for the Private rating.
http://www.pulaskitech.edu/current_news/default.asp?ID=285

Offline undatc

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2007, 02:03:53 AM »
FS9 is about $19 at Walmart right now, and the interface is whatever you make of it. It's also only a game if you treat it that way. Many folks use it as a tool to aid their training, and probably one of the least expensive tools out there.

Sorry, I was thinking of FSX, which is about $50ish.
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...

Offline spacer

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2007, 05:52:38 PM »
FS9 is about $19 at Walmart right now, and the interface is whatever you make of it. It's also only a game if you treat it that way. Many folks use it as a tool to aid their training, and probably one of the least expensive tools out there.

Sorry, I was thinking of FSX, which is about $50ish.

It is, but as a learning tool, it can be *well* worth it.
Of course, if you can find someone who already has it, you can try it out before actually buying a copy. I don't think fs9 has an ATC function, but it's still a good sim on the flying side.

Offline Fabo

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2007, 12:44:15 PM »
I would suggest you to have a look at vatsim.net, its counterpart used more in Europe is frequently staffed by real-life ATCOs, so I would say it is not that bad experience. And you can practically use it for free, as you only need free ATC software emulating radar screen.
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Offline undatc

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2007, 01:36:14 PM »
I would suggest you to have a look at vatsim.net, its counterpart used more in Europe is frequently staffed by real-life ATCOs, so I would say it is not that bad experience. And you can practically use it for free, as you only need free ATC software emulating radar screen.

I've actually used vatsim, and although the software and interface is nice, the people using it aren't of the same quality.  Our professors discourage us from using it, as they dont use actual seperation standards (most of the time they just use visual seperation for IFR traffic which isn't good enough) and their phraseology is horriable for the most part.  I'm sure I'll probably get into it after I graduate in the fall, as that would be the only way I can practice till I get shipped to OKC.
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...