Author Topic: uvsc?  (Read 20940 times)

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2007, 12:47:47 AM »
I've sent a number of people to Ameriflight with the statement that they will be burning kerosene within 90 days and most have called me back within that period saying they are flying a 99 or a Metroliner (as Captain) and building turbine time----Ameriflight has a huge turnover rate because their pilots get into turbines quickly, build time quickly and are picked up by the airlines quickly---and the pay is as good as any regional plus, if you hang around for a couple of years, you will be getting typed in jets.
Ameriflight has the largest fleet of Metros in the world, they also have 99s, Lears, Sabreliners, and (Cessna single turbines--What the hell are they called?)--They are the biggest cargo contractor that UPS uses and UPS looks to them for big iron pilots!

Ameriflight is also all single pilot overnight freight dawg stuff... They are also the largest operator of BE-99s in the world.

I know a guy who works there and also does pilot training...  No thanks for me!     And unlike the regionals, commuting is specifically not allowed.  There is a reason for the huge turnover, and it's not just the amount of time you get...

www.airlinepilotcentral.com  has a good listing for them.  Current upgrade out of the Navajo is 5 months, unless you have the flight time, where you can start in the BE-99.
Quote
Hiring. New-hires start on Chieftains/Navajos. Training is 4-5 weeks. Flying: 60-70 hrs every month. Upgrade time to turbine (Be99) position is currently about 5 months; can be less depending on domicile. Pilots with 1800 TT and 350 multi can start on the Be99 as PIC. Typical day is about 3-4 hrs of flying M-F, they stay at the layover during the day.

That's the same amount of flight time I get, and I work half as many days and go home every night.  And by the time you have 1800TT, you have a decent shot at going to Mesa and being left seat in a turbine for a lot more pay.

Speaking of the pay... A first year BE-99 captain doesn't make any more than I can in a year.  Only difference is they are salaried and have to live in CA where the cost of living is higher.  And we aren't exactly top of the scale as far as "regional" pay.  That's the lowest pay for PIC on those aircraft that I've seen anywhere.  They are paying the single pilot captain what an F/O on the same aircraft would make at a regional.  My room mate's company up here is wanting to pay pilots more than double what Ameriflight pays the Navajo pilots (more than their B-1900 captains top out at!), and with them you get an autopilot and a company that tries to keep employees happy.  F/Os at Horizon make the same or better as the starting pay there when they start, and their pay rates top out much higher.

Our captains here are starting out with the ability to make more than you can top out at ameriflight if you stay there 20 years.

I'll be very surprised if UPS "looks" to them for anything these days.  UPS now requires heavy trans oceanic time as part of their minimums.  This was effective a month or so ago.  I'll bug the guy I know about it now... but I'm a bit skeptical there as far as UPS goes...  I've been under the impression that people had been going there and then to the regionals.


I don't see a listing for Caravans on their pay scale... but Caravan time is about worthless these days anyway if you ever want to get to an airline of any type.  Sure, it's nice if you want to fly Caravans, but multi turbine SIC is more valuable than single turbine or multi piston PIC in today's market.

YMMV, but I think there are better routes to take, especially if you have a family.  5 days a week working at night and spending days away from home?  If that's what you want...
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2007, 01:03:47 AM »
I've talked to lots of Amflite guys as we always park with their machines..  anyway, some speak highly of it and some not so highly..  one guy said he was very happy there after many years in aviation because he had a good home base, good pay and good mtx.  He said he had never had all 3 before in 30 years of flying, so he was staying for good.  He liked being home every day.

I hear a wide variety of opinions..  most of them good.
Don't make me come back there!!!!

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2007, 01:16:20 AM »
I work for a private company that contracts work from the US government----Mary works for the US government...........I'm a civilian, she's an official guvmint public servant-----I do it for the money >:D----she does it for the money, the glory, and the retirement benefits |:)\

Uh oh, I think Daddy Airtac's wife must have hidden his bottle of medicinal elixir...  he's starting to blur the past and present....  I USED to be a government puke...  ah yes, those were the good ole days..  at least until the MORONS I worked for stated, FLAT OUT, that they didn't "believe in maintenance".  I'd share the whole story with you, but, well, I really like Mike and Stef, and the FCC wouldn't be too happy with any of us if I said what I REALLY thought.   >:(

So.....  for the last 7 fire seasons, I, too, have been working for a private company that contracts to the government to supply a smokejumper "platform".  I have NO retirement, NO bennies, NO savings plan, none of that cushy stuff that does come with a govvie job...  BUT, I DO have a GREAT company with GREAT guys to work with, the pilots are GREAT guys, my boss is simply too good to be true (no kidding), AND....  we have the best maintenance I have ever run across.  I am SO much happier now than I was before...  fighting over trying to get broken planes fixed and being told by people who had ZERO expertise, they were "just fine" and "the last guy flew it".  Anyway, I was the ONLY pilot there who had NOT wrecked an airplane...  and I was glad as can be to get away from that place!!!!!     ;D

Yippee, yippee, yippeee....  that about sums it up.    ::bow::
Don't make me come back there!!!!

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2007, 01:20:24 AM »
I've talked to lots of Amflite guys as we always park with their machines..  anyway, some speak highly of it and some not so highly..  one guy said he was very happy there after many years in aviation because he had a good home base, good pay and good mtx.  He said he had never had all 3 before in 30 years of flying, so he was staying for good.  He liked being home every day.

I hear a wide variety of opinions..  most of them good.

That is a good thing to hear.   On this end all we get is guys who left and swear never to go back... but all I talk to for the most part is the guys who didn't want to stay there.  ;)

I still don't particularly agree with the "good pay" aspect though.  ;)    Their pay scales are some of the worst out there for the scheduled world.


I just noticed something else... you said he's home every day...  how long has he been there and what aircraft?   I got the impression that the typical week was mostly away from home with just the weekends to recover.

I've heard exactly three people say it wasn't too bad, and two of them are in the thread.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 01:30:20 AM by Baradium »
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2007, 01:29:51 AM »
I asked... I misunderstood how they work.

He's away from home a lot... but they actually do flying during the "day" and are home at night.


Basically, get up real early and fly somewhere, sit around waiting all day, fly back that night.  He indicated they can spend some nights away from home, but not too often.


"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2007, 01:46:21 AM »
I forget what plane this guy was on, but he was an older guy, had flown all his life, and was flat sick of always being gone and having bad mtx...  he said the company treated him great, he was out of Oakland or somewhere, they worked with him to make sure he got the base he wanted, and he said he made better $$ than anywhere else he had worked.  I didn't get into details because I just didn't really care, but he was trying to talk ME out of MY job, I just said Thanks but no thanks.

I have talked to guys who hated it too, but they were young and this guy was a lot more experienced, I just remember how highly he spoke of the company.

I don't retain much if it doesn't interest me much.   :) 
Don't make me come back there!!!!

airtac

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2007, 02:16:05 AM »

Ameriflight is also all single pilot overnight freight dawg stuff... They are also the largest operator of BE-99s in the world.

I know a guy who works there and also does pilot training...  No thanks for me!     And unlike the regionals, commuting is specifically not allowed.  There is a reason for the huge turnover, and it's not just the amount of time you get...

www.airlinepilotcentral.com  has a good listing for them.  Current upgrade out of the Navajo is 5 months, unless you have the flight time, where you can start in the BE-99.
Quote
Hiring. New-hires start on Chieftains/Navajos. Training is 4-5 weeks. Flying: 60-70 hrs every month. Upgrade time to turbine (Be99) position is currently about 5 months; can be less depending on domicile. Pilots with 1800 TT and 350 multi can start on the Be99 as PIC. Typical day is about 3-4 hrs of flying M-F, they stay at the layover during the day.

That's the same amount of flight time I get, and I work half as many days and go home every night.  And by the time you have 1800TT, you have a decent shot at going to Mesa and being left seat in a turbine for a lot more pay.

Speaking of the pay... A first year BE-99 captain doesn't make any more than I can in a year.  Only difference is they are salaried and have to live in CA where the cost of living is higher.  And we aren't exactly top of the scale as far as "regional" pay.  That's the lowest pay for PIC on those aircraft that I've seen anywhere.  They are paying the single pilot captain what an F/O on the same aircraft would make at a regional.  My room mate's company up here is wanting to pay pilots more than double what Ameriflight pays the Navajo pilots (more than their B-1900 captains top out at!), and with them you get an autopilot and a company that tries to keep employees happy.  F/Os at Horizon make the same or better as the starting pay there when they start, and their pay rates top out much higher.

Our captains here are starting out with the ability to make more than you can top out at ameriflight if you stay there 20 years.

I'll be very surprised if UPS "looks" to them for anything these days.  UPS now requires heavy trans oceanic time as part of their minimums.  This was effective a month or so ago.  I'll bug the guy I know about it now... but I'm a bit skeptical there as far as UPS goes...  I've been under the impression that people had been going there and then to the regionals.


I don't see a listing for Caravans on their pay scale... but Caravan time is about worthless these days anyway if you ever want to get to an airline of any type.  Sure, it's nice if you want to fly Caravans, but multi turbine SIC is more valuable than single turbine or multi piston PIC in today's market.

YMMV, but I think there are better routes to take, especially if you have a family.  5 days a week working at night and spending days away from home?  If that's what you want...

JUNIOR, you sure jump to conclusions about what I mean---I'm sure your route to "THE AIRLINES" is the absolute best way to go just like I'm sure you invented sex and clutch changes, however, it ain't the only way.

Perhaps because I've never been on the same quest (airlines) as you, I have a different viewpoint.  The couple of years I worked for Cal Air Charter (Ameriflight) was truly enlightening and I became a hot IFR stick which has served me well in subsequent jobs and serves me well to this day.
I will not debate this because it is a non-issue, this forum was meant to be a good natured vehicle for people to express their opinions and often divergent viewpoints so there is no reason to arrogantly jump all over my post.  I hope you live long enough to learn a little humility, if not respect for other people, when through real life experience they have come to different conclusions.

The statements I made came from EXPERIENCE--the people I have sent to Ameriflight accomplished what I stated and most, if not, all have moved on to other jobs, some to the majors, quite a few to regionals, some to corporate jobs, and some to UPS or other heavy freighters like Evergreen.

Gathering information from good sources and reading about it is great but it's not the same as actually experiencing life.  If you will look you will see my post simply said "I have sent a number of to Ameriflight" after which I stated the facts of their experience as related by them to me first hand---I was not conjecturing.

As far as being single pilot freight dogs (not dawgs) you bet your ass!!  It's a hell of a way to hone your skills and I've never heard anyone regret it.    As far as a career---I have never recommended it.   As far as pay---It stinks, but of course that's why I would never recommend it.

Any flight time is good experience, even if it doesn't count toward Baradium's goals so don't be so arrogant as to presume that your goals are everybody else's--thet are not.


airtac

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2007, 02:22:54 AM »
I work for a private company that contracts work from the US government----Mary works for the US government...........I'm a civilian, she's an official guvmint public servant-----I do it for the money >:D----she does it for the money, the glory, and the retirement benefits |:)\

Uh oh, I think Daddy Airtac's wife must have hidden his bottle of medicinal elixir...  he's starting to blur the past and present....  I USED to be a government puke...  ah yes, those were the good ole days..  at least until the MORONS I worked for stated, FLAT OUT, that they didn't "believe in maintenance".  I'd share the whole story with you, but, well, I really like Mike and Stef, and the FCC wouldn't be too happy with any of us if I said what I REALLY thought.   >:(

So.....  for the last 7 fire seasons, I, too, have been working for a private company that contracts to the government to supply a smokejumper "platform".  I have NO retirement, NO bennies, NO savings plan, none of that cushy stuff that does come with a govvie job...  BUT, I DO have a GREAT company with GREAT guys to work with, the pilots are GREAT guys, my boss is simply too good to be true (no kidding), AND....  we have the best maintenance I have ever run across.  I am SO much happier now than I was before...  fighting over trying to get broken planes fixed and being told by people who had ZERO expertise, they were "just fine" and "the last guy flew it".  Anyway, I was the ONLY pilot there who had NOT wrecked an airplane...  and I was glad as can be to get away from that place!!!!!     ;D

Yippee, yippee, yippeee....  that about sums it up.    ::bow::

Crap, I completely lost my head there---Forgot everything you told me ::loony::  Sorry about the insult ::banghead::

Offline G-man

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2007, 02:47:18 AM »

As far as being single pilot freight dogs (not dawgs) you bet your ass!!  It's a hell of a way to hone your skills and I've never heard anyone regret it.    As far as a career---I have never recommended it.   As far as pay---It stinks, but of course that's why I would never recommend it.


Have not really been following this thread till now, but I have something serious to say for once...   ::unbelieveable::   ::unbelieveable::   ::unbelieveable::

I have to agree with airtac on the principle issue he raised..Sometimes its better to "pay your dues", than get ahead too fast. I stayed instructing for many years, and still do so to this day, albeit, rarely these days. A wise old FAA inspector named Ray told me once---"One pays their dues, not because of what you get, but because of what you get from it, and what becomes of it". In the helicopter world, I have flown with pilots who have never flown alone in a helicopter......they seriously lack the ability to make decisions related to many aspects of flight, but the scary one is "weather". We all train endlessly to deal with equipment failures, but rarely train for weather emergencies. I would hazard a guess that 90% of helicopter crashes are wx related.

OK--lost my train of thought, but you get the general idea..... Pay your dues and you will learn more than you think.........
Life may not be the party we hoped for---but while we're here--we might as well dance..........

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2007, 02:51:22 AM »
I forget what plane this guy was on, but he was an older guy, had flown all his life, and was flat sick of always being gone and having bad mtx...  he said the company treated him great, he was out of Oakland or somewhere, they worked with him to make sure he got the base he wanted, and he said he made better $$ than anywhere else he had worked.  I didn't get into details because I just didn't really care, but he was trying to talk ME out of MY job, I just said Thanks but no thanks.

That really is a big factor.  How a company treats you makes a world of difference in the experience.  I'd rather have less money and enjoy my job than get paid a ton to be unhappy all the time.  

Quote
I have talked to guys who hated it too, but they were young and this guy was a lot more experienced, I just remember how highly he spoke of the company.

"Experienced..." is that what they call it these days?

Quote
I don't retain much if it doesn't interest me much.   :) 

That explains a lot  <ducks>


Airtac, that's not what I meant at all.   I had no intention of offending you, but I hear a LOT of talk about this company and I'm not going to hide a differing viewpoint becuase you are the one who said something contrary.  I never meant to imply that I "knew" better.  REGARDLESS of how it actually came across.

In fact, the ONLY point I actually disagreed with you on was the UPS area and that's because of a change that took effect in APRIL of this year requiring heavy trans oceanic time.  IE, they want guys to go to Cathay or one of the other freight companies first becuase they CAN becuase so many people want to go there.

I'm  not trying to make assumptions based on what *my* goals are (which you are making some assumptions about), but based on what I understand *his* goals to be.   I wouldn't recommend MY company for him either, becuase he has a wife and kid and I doubt he wants to move them to Fairbanks or Anchorage.

I am sorry for offending you, but it was never any intention of mine.  I do realize that other people know better about some areas, and once more than one person said they'd heard good things I queried my friend there again and got more specifics.  *HE* actually does like it there, but it reminds me a lot of *this* company and I don't think either of them are the type of experience velojym is really interested in if he wants to fly corporate or for brown through the quickest way possible.  *THAT* part is my *opinion* and has NOTHING to do with MY goals.

Just because I'm young doesn't mean I don't respect you, and I'll continue to respect you whether you hate my guts or not.  Believe it or not, I put a lot of stock in your opinion, but I will offer what I've heard contradictory if I think it might be true, as that can make a big difference to someone's decisions.  The industry in all fronts has changed dramatically over the last year and a half.  A lot that was true when I was going through *my* training isn't even true now.

This is all I'll say on the matter, other than that I am SORRY.   I don't even like how I worded it myself now that I look through it again, but I can't change that other than to implore that how you took it is NOT what I MEANT.  And if meaning doesn't matter, than I've already lost anyway.
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

airtac

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2007, 03:19:46 AM »
I said what I wanted-------It's cool-----drop it 8)

Offline Gulfstream Driver

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2007, 03:27:43 AM »

Speaking of the pay... A first year BE-99 captain doesn't make any more than I can in a year.  Only difference is they are salaried and have to live in CA where the cost of living is higher.  And we aren't exactly top of the scale as far as "regional" pay.  That's the lowest pay for PIC on those aircraft that I've seen anywhere.  They are paying the single pilot captain what an F/O on the same aircraft would make at a regional. 

Not all regionals are the same...It HAS to be better than Mesaba, which starts their F/O's at $13,000.  That's less than minimum wage.

Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2007, 03:34:59 AM »
I said what I wanted-------It's cool-----drop it 8)

Roger

re: Dawgs: 

http://www.cafepress.com/dreamlaunch/760441   

Just a reference to that little movement...
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline Baradium

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2007, 04:03:41 AM »

Speaking of the pay... A first year BE-99 captain doesn't make any more than I can in a year.  Only difference is they are salaried and have to live in CA where the cost of living is higher.  And we aren't exactly top of the scale as far as "regional" pay.  That's the lowest pay for PIC on those aircraft that I've seen anywhere.  They are paying the single pilot captain what an F/O on the same aircraft would make at a regional. 

Not all regionals are the same...It HAS to be better than Mesaba, which starts their F/O's at $13,000.  That's less than minimum wage.




Mesaba's pay scale says $21,600 guarantee for 1st year F/Os

$24 an hour with a 75 hour/ month guarantee.   You can work more than that and get a lot more money (IE, overtime days or just extra days). Some RJ guys are getting 100 hours a month (max allowed).  That translates into $28,800 a year if they can pull that off every month (max allowed is 100 hours a month and 1200 a year).  Assuming they pull off 1000 hours in the year instead it'd be $24,000.  They don't have comparable aircraft, but that's about standard for Beech 1900 pay as well.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/mesaba.html



If you start with the BE-99 with Ameriflight you get around $26,000 flat out.    Navajo captains get around $23,700.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ameriflight.html


Great lakes is the one you're thinking about though.
http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/great_lakes.html

$13,500 for a guarantee.  But apparently they have the 1400 hour exemption, most of their first year guys are still making $21,000.

Big Sky also has the exemption, 78 hour a month guarantee with $20 an hour (block)
http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/big_sky.html

Guarantees as a pay guage just give you the minimum, you can always get more.  At my company the guarantee is 0.
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: uvsc?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2007, 04:17:22 AM »
Crap, I completely lost my head there---Forgot everything you told me ::loony::  Sorry about the insult ::banghead::

Ha ha, you are funny!  No worries, Mate!  To be honest (I'm going to whisper here so no one hears this), it makes my DAY when I fly into some base and people there still think I work for the Feds....  I know, I know, that is a childish response on my part, but I readily admit it!   ;D   Nothing does my heart more good, than to run into that and be able to say that they kicked me in the derriere so hard when I left, I STILL have the black-and-blue bootprint to prove it.   Wheee heeee!!!!   ;D

I can't actually write it here, but I did leave them with a TWO WORD phrase, and I'll give you one hint, it WASN'T "Thank You".    ::complaining:

And just to keep the record straight, I loved the people I worked with in the FS right up until I got above a certain pay scale.  The folks below that would, literally, DIE to save your home from burning.  We had crew bosses we would have dove over a cliff for.  But, the "persons" above that level seemed to come from some alien planet, and the rules didn't apply.  It was a pretty heart-breaking discovery for a young kid who came up from the bottom, but, Hey, everything works out.   ;)

There isn't a day that I am not thankful for the circuitous route I took...  a lot of things went screwy, but it is all experience, and if we're lucky, we get to keep on getting more.  If we're REALLY lucky, we get pink control locks and dirty jokes and full moon jobs on paracargo runs.   ::rofl::

 :-*
Don't make me come back there!!!!