"America's Most Dangerous Jobs"

[undatc]

as far as from an ATC stand point, 7700 can be used for any emergency, heart attack to your wing falling off.  Basicly all its tells us is that youre in trouble and you get priority handeling, thats it.  7700 is considered a non descreate sqwak so for us its just another number.

[Baradium]

as far as from an ATC stand point, 7700 can be used for any emergency, heart attack to your wing falling off.  Basicly all its tells us is that youre in trouble and you get priority handeling, thats it.  7700 is considered a non descreate sqwak so for us its just another number.

What he said.   I'd like to add that any type of medical emergency among passengers could qualify too.  Keep in mind that you don't have to reset your transponder to declare an emergency. 

[Baradium]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?ref=rss&storyid=74518

First Coast Man On Plane When Pilot Dies

By Jessica Clark
First Coast News

ST. AUGSTINE, FL -- Tom Addison Fitzgerald is known by most people in St. Augustine as Tom. He's a professional photographer and has his own business, Addison Fitzgerald Studios.

This past weekend he was on his way to a photo shoot in Mexico on a plane from Houston, when he lived though something he'll never forget.

Addison said the steward asked if anyone on board was a doctor. He didn't think much of that.

Then he says he saw two people pull the unconscious pilot from the cockpit and perform CPR on him.

"I was trying to calm myself, tell myself that I'd be alright. Then I got anxious. I started thinking about my wife and my child. Even more, I was thinking about the pilot and his family," Addison said.

Addison then heard another announcement. This time the flight steward was asking if anyone knew how to fly a plane.

It turned out, the man seated next to Addison was a pilot.

"So I leaned over and I said, 'can you handle this?' He said, 'I have a small plane. I'm going to go up there.'"

That man helped the co-pilot make an emergency landing. Addison said it was a hard landing, but it was a safe one.

The pilot died right in front of Addison. He said he died three minutes before the landing.

Addison also said applause from the 210 passengers rang out for the co-pilot and the passenger who stepped up and helped out.

[Gulfstream Driver]

My luck would be they'd ask if anyone can fly and there'd be 10 other guys on the flight with licenses.  I suppose he got to log that as SIC and dual received.

[undatc]

What he said.   I'd like to add that any type of medical emergency among passengers could qualify too.  Keep in mind that you don't have to reset your transponder to declare an emergency. 

True you don't have to reset, but then we don't "have" to give you priority handling until you do, I think any controller would thou, but its not in the regs that we "Shall".  If I remember correctly, i don't feel like pulling out the 7110, ATC cant ask you to sqwak 7700, you have to do it on your own.

[Gulfstream Driver]

And that's only if you have time.  Obviously, in this case there would be time, but flying the airplane is still #1. 

[Baradium]

True you don't have to reset, but then we don't "have" to give you priority handling until you do, I think any controller would thou, but its not in the regs that we "Shall".  If I remember correctly, i don't feel like pulling out the 7110, ATC cant ask you to sqwak 7700, you have to do it on your own.

Sorry, I don't think this is correct. 

From the AIM:

6-3-2. Obtaining Emergency Assistance

a. A pilot in any distress or urgency condition should immediately take the following action, not necessarily in the order listed, to obtain assistance:

1. Climb, if possible, for improved communications, and better radar and direction finding detection. However, it must be understood that unauthorized climb or descent under IFR conditions within controlled airspace is prohibited, except as permitted by 14 CFR Section 91.3(b).

2. If equipped with a radar beacon transponder (civil) or IFF/SIF (military):

(a) Continue squawking assigned Mode A/3 discrete code/VFR code and Mode C altitude encoding when in radio contact with an air traffic facility or other agency providing air traffic services, unless instructed to do otherwise.

(b) If unable to immediately establish communications with an air traffic facility/agency, squawk Mode A/3, Code 7700/Emergency and Mode C.

3. Transmit a distress or urgency message consisting of as many as necessary of the following elements, preferably in the order listed:

(a) If distress, MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAY-DAY; if urgency, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN.

(b) Name of station addressed.

(c) Aircraft identification and type.

(d) Nature of distress or urgency.

(e) Weather.

(f) Pilots intentions and request.

(g) Present position, and heading; or if lost, last known position, time, and heading since that position.

(h) Altitude or flight level.

(i) Fuel remaining in minutes.

(j) Number of people on board.

(k) Any other useful information.

REFERENCE-
Pilot/Controller Glossary Term- Fuel Remaining.

b. After establishing radio contact, comply with advice and instructions received. Cooperate. Do not hesitate to ask questions or clarify instructions when you do not understand or if you cannot comply with clearance. Assist the ground station to control communications on the frequency in use. Silence interfering radio stations. Do not change frequency or change to another ground station unless absolutely necessary. If you do, advise the ground station of the new frequency and station name prior to the change, transmitting in the blind if necessary. If two-way communications cannot be established on the new frequency, return immediately to the frequency or station where two-way communications last existed.

c. When in a distress condition with bailout, crash landing or ditching imminent, take the following additional actions to assist search and rescue units:

1. Time and circumstances permitting, transmit as many as necessary of the message elements in subparagraph a3 above, and any of the following that you think might be helpful:

(a) ELT status.

(b) Visible landmarks.

(c) Aircraft color.

(d) Number of persons on board.

(e) Emergency equipment on board.

2. Actuate your ELT if the installation permits.

3. For bailout, and for crash landing or ditching if risk of fire is not a consideration, set your radio for continuous transmission.

4. If it becomes necessary to ditch, make every effort to ditch near a surface vessel. If time permits, an FAA facility should be able to get the position of the nearest commercial or Coast Guard vessel from a Coast Guard Rescue Coordination Center.

5. After a crash landing, unless you have good reason to believe that you will not be located by search aircraft or ground teams, it is best to remain with your aircraft and prepare means for signaling search aircraft.

If you're already with ATC it specifically says to remain with your current squawk (note that is if you are in radio contact).    Somehow that makes me doubt that the change is *required* to be ensured assistance. 

Since it was referenced above,  91.3 (b) states:

(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.

[tundra_flier]

as far as from an ATC stand point, 7700 can be used for any emergency, heart attack to your wing falling off.  Basicly all its tells us is that youre in trouble and you get priority handeling, thats it.  7700 is considered a non descreate sqwak so for us its just another number.

What he said.   I'd like to add that any type of medical emergency among passengers could qualify too.  Keep in mind that you don't have to reset your transponder to declare an emergency. 

Does an over full bladder count as a medical emergency?      

Phil

[TheSoccerMom]

Phil!!  Have you been riding around with me, and not told me?!?!?!     

[Mike]

If you're already with ATC it specifically says to remain with your current squawk (note that is if you are in radio contact).    Somehow that makes me doubt that the change is *required* to be ensured assistance. 

Well, I think it's pretty neat that you are able to look up all the little details about emergency procedures and what it specifically says in the regs but I have the feeling you haven't really had a real emergency yet.  Am I right ?!

Here is the only thing that counts:
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.

I was just trying to be funny earlier in this thread . . .

In all reality this subject is as serious as a heart attack (all pun intended . . . )

[Mike]

Does an over full bladder count as a medical emergency?      

Phil

I think it does . . . AS SOON AS YOU PEE YOUR PANTS !!!  wooahahahah     

[tundra_flier]

Well, I met a pilot who really really had to go while flying a Super Cub in -30F weather.   He was on wheels, so no emergency landing sites around.  Finally he gave up and wet himself.   10 seconds later all the windows frosted up completely! 

Phil

[Mike]

HA HA!

I can see a strip there !!
what a story!

[Baradium]

Well, I think it's pretty neat that you are able to look up all the little details about emergency procedures and what it specifically says in the regs but I have the feeling you haven't really had a real emergency yet.  Am I right ?!

Here is the only thing that counts:
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.

I was just trying to be funny earlier in this thread . . .

In all reality this subject is as serious as a heart attack (all pun intended . . . )

I was only referencing Chris (undatc) on the quote about *having* to squawk emergency to be *ensured* assistance.  Not trying to say not to do it, just that it's not a requirement.   Goes back towards the deviations as well.   In any case, it didn't ring right with me so I looked it up.  I wasn't looking for when you're *supposed* to squawk 7700, just whether there was really a *requirement* to do so to ensure priority.

The reason I gave that last quote was:  if ATC isn't going to GIVE me priority in an emergency, I'm going to use that part to TAKE it if I deem it neccessary.


Guess the "best" one I've had is severe icing on an ILS.  Captain's Nav radio died (best we can figure is ice on the antenna), his windshield couldn't be cleared and I had a 3x3" hole to see out of to land with.  Even got iced over on the side windows in the cockpit (normally they seem to stay clear on a 1900).  We didn't declare an emergency (we had our hands full enough), but if the ice hadn't gotten loose enough on my side for the wipers to clear off that little area and we'd had to go missed, we would have been in trouble...  We actually weren't in the icing very long, the problem was the very steep double inversion present.  Went from pretty darn cold to "warm" (ice) and then very cold.  We couldn't make enough heat on the windshields with the windshield heat on high, and even diverting all heat in the aircraft to the defrost vents (and bleed air heat works quite well) couldn't get them hot enough to melt he ice.  The defrost did just enough that help from the wipers let me see.   It was big freak event that alllowed it to add up, but tower didn't know about it until after we were on the ground and had time to report our encounter.

Anyway, I'm not going to play "who's got the better story" or anything like that.  Besides, I'm sure you've got a lot more than me.  My whole reason for looking stuff up was my shock of the idea that ATC would be able to deny priority in an emergency if they wanted just because of a squawk.  The *only* reason I posted that much information was to make sure I wasn't leaving anything out that could make it appear I was hiding information to support my argument.  I made a specific point to include the text authorizing any action deemed neccessary. 

In an emergency situation the official procedures are *recommendations* and are flexible to whatever the PIC deems neccessary.  In emergency situations you have two set priorities.    1) fly the airplane
2) get your passengers, and yourself, safely on the ground or otherwise out of the situation

Everything else is secondary.  I'll let ATC know something is going on when I have time, but that's not going to be a priority.  The above example for instance.  If it'd happened 30 miles out we would have easily declared an emergency, but coming down an ILS we had more important things to worry about.   Fortunately it was my flying leg, as the last thing you want to do in the middle of an approach is switch out duties.

I might be reading it wrong, but I get the impression you are implying I don't know what happens in an emergency situation.  While it might be true I havn't had to put down in the bush yet, I am fully aware of there being a time and place for procedures.  Getting stuck on making sure your "procedures" are right re: the regs can get you killed in an emergency.  I posted this information as a *reference* and reference only.  Please don't infer that this means I think you *must* follow them.

[Mike]

I might be reading it wrong, but I get the impression you are implying I don't know what happens in an emergency situation.  While it might be true I havn't had to put down in the bush yet, I am fully aware of there being a time and place for procedures.  Getting stuck on making sure your "procedures" are right re: the regs can get you killed in an emergency.  I posted this information as a *reference* and reference only.  Please don't infer that this means I think you *must* follow them.

Jeez, man! Why do you always have to be so serious about everything?!   
No offence, but seriously...

Of course I am not implying you don't know what to do in an emergency.

Anyway, I'm not going to play "who's got the better story" or anything like that.

This is what I was kind of hinting at that you are doing.

Not so much "the better story" but "the most knowledge" by teaching us things like:

In an emergency situation the official procedures are *recommendations* and are flexible to whatever the PIC deems neccessary.  In emergency situations you have two set priorities.    1) fly the airplane
2) get your passengers, and yourself, safely on the ground or otherwise out of the situation

But I was trying to keep it light and fun because I want to keep this forum from becoming like the one on AOPA....

Like I said, no offence please.
I just sometimes see our project threatened with things like that. And this is just my personal opinion. If you look at the thread, it started kind of light hearted with fun remarks and then got dead-serious and ended up with people quoting eachother the regs. I think you'll see where I am coming from.
So then I just shot a little remark in there to see what you'll do and it looks like it backfired.
That's all.