Thinking about buying

[MasonKR]

Here is what I have been wondering about.  Right now we have a 1995 R-22 that is timed out, which now makes it an experimental A/C the owner it wanting to sell it for 25.00,00 ish.  I have the money put up for a while "from a grandparents passing" I have a pretty steady income right now as well.  My question is, would it be worth while to buy it and just fly it while I do the instruction thing as well? I really don't know what kinda cost I would be opening myself up too, I.E. maintenance, parts, labor.  I was just thinking about it noting for sure.  Figured that if I could get a straightforward answer for anyone it would be on here.

-Kyle

[G-man]

You will not be able to instruct in it. And if you intend just hours building----most employers may not count those hours.

The other issue is ---- who is going to buy when you are done--or are you going to trash it?

[MasonKR]

I thought about it for hours, however if most employers won't consider thos valid hours then I guess my mind is made up.

[Mike]

I am not sure I understand the "timed-out" part...

Are you saying it has more than 2000hrs on it (or 2200hrs or whatever and R-22 is up to by now) and would need to go back to the factory?
Don't the Robinsons need to go back once in a while? I didn't know you could keep flying them......

If so then the other issue I would have is that Robinson may have had a reason why they want those things back after so many hours. Also, try to find somebody who wants to worked on such a machine.

I personally would think the hours count for an employer if you're talking about flying the 100 or so hours you need to get from Private to Commercial. But I wouldn't use the helo to build, let's say, 500hrs of toodeling-around time to get you your first charter job. Employers look at that because those pilots fly a lot different than pilots who were instructing the same time. Every hour counts still I would say....

[MasonKR]

Yea, after Robinsons reach 2200 hrs they become experimental so they just can't be used to make any sort of money.  But they can still be flown

We also have an on-site mechanic who would work on it, he has for the last 2 years or so, and he is a very thorough mechanic. As far as the factory wanting it back for some reason I honestly can't tell you why they do it, I am sure that someone here will be able to speak more intelligently than I can about the issue.

I was thinking of using it to build some hours, as well as instructing "in a different A/C" not saying 500 hrs, but a few to make the purchase worth while

[Ragwing]

The manufacturer and the FAA imposes lifetimes on some aircraft.
When they reach those hours, most aircraft are scrapped.
On fixed wing, sometimes it is a limit on the wings, others the tail.
The design assumption is that fatigue cracks may have started in areas that are not accessible.

When the Robinson R-22 reaches it's limit, you send it back to the factory for a complete overhaul and it is brought up to current standards.
The R-22 overhaul was about $125,000. 

---------------

I put a few hours in one R-22 a couple of years ago.
There was one dent in the underside of each blade where I think some pilot had set down too close to a small tree. (4-5 feet out from the hub)
The mechanics assured me that it was inspected and safe......  I noticed a couple of months later that they changed their minds and replaced the blades.

The problem with going over time is that there is a lot of the aircraft that you cannot inspect. 
The blades are aluminum skin bonded to a honeycomb interior.  There is no way to inspect the bond.

Speaking as an aircraft design engineer, the time limit is conservative.
BUT I make assumptions on how it is going to be used..... And people keep surprising me.
RW

[Mike]

I agree 100% with Rag here. I have seen people overfly AD's and lifetime limits for all kinds of reasons and may or may not have done it myself for whatever reason (not that I would ever admit to it though  ). Some were paperwork related, some were because the owner just didn't care, and more . . . .

I know that the manufacturers limits are probably very conservative (I know from the mechanic side that they are when it comes to over toques and such) but I still would have a hard time going against manufacturers recommendations and not worry about it. How do you know how far past you can go past the 2200hrs? 20hrs, 200hrs? What would the next inspection be? a 100hr?
You become a test pilot at that point. The question I would ask is, is it worth the cheaper price per flight hour?

[MasonKR]

Ahh.. I am starting to have more cons than pros at this point.  Well, at least it kept me busy on the drive home thinking about it.  Thanks guys

-Kyle

[G-man]

Hey Kyle....

Change your avatar pic...it is too big and annoying to scroll down the page......

Thanx

[MasonKR]

That was a bit excessive, sorry about that

[G-man]

That was a bit excessive, sorry about that

There ya go...much better......

Maybe it shows up smaller on your screen.....on mine it took a whole page of scrolling.....