Author Topic: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?  (Read 18902 times)

Offline Frank N. O.

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Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« on: January 24, 2010, 04:17:41 PM »
Now the Hughes H-4 (or is it HK-1?) Hercules as it's officially called was to my knowledge only ever flown once and only for a very short distance and at low altitude, but has anyone recently tried to make either a scale-model test or computer simulation to see if the design could've worked?

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« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 04:19:24 PM by Frank N. O. »
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Offline Oddball

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 04:41:29 PM »
Have seen photos a Radio Controlled version of the "Spruce Goose" flying on electirc motors.
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Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 05:02:51 PM »
Any idea if that was made to be comparable to the real thing? A radio-controlled model of Baloo's Sea Duck was also made but that had a much wider wing-span than drawings showed and when I asked about the Sea Duck and showed the drawings here a while ago it was said that the wings were really small so it would've had to have a lot of engine-power to fly as a real full-size plane. Here's the RC model btw: http://freenet-homepage.de/punikaoase/page106349961f3.html

Frank
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Offline 4X-NTY

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 05:56:33 PM »
As much as I know,RC planes shouldn't be any help in figuring this out,they're engine is relatively stronger,the fly relatively faster and relatively lighter than the real things,so even if the model is exactly in the shape of the real thing but smaller,it wouldn't fly the same as the real thing.
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Offline Louis

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 05:42:46 AM »

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 01:17:30 PM »
Good points 4X, I hadn't really thought about that before I posted, far from everything in the world can just be scaled up and down and still work the same, just look at insect-legs compared to hippos or elephants.

An X-Plane model could be interesting if it's made authentically considering X-Plane's actual aerodynamic simulation, thanks for the link :)

I remember seeing that someone not long ago made a full-size replica of a concept-plane designed many decades ago by a famous aerodynamic engineer. It was never tested when it was made, I think it was due to WWII starting, so the concept behind it was never confirmed. It was basically a big bagger with a propeller inside and wings attached and a cockpit on top of the barrell. I think that they did actually get the replica to fly and thus confirmed the theory. I was just wondering if someone had gone back and tested the Spruce Goose, of course not with a full-size replica but a computer-simulation.

Frank
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 01:20:43 PM by Frank N. O. »
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
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Offline 4X-NTY

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 03:06:33 PM »
As for the X-Plane model,I think that i tested it and it flew... I'll check it again!
Nitay "Pitz" Ronen

Offline Ragwing

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2010, 02:47:56 PM »
During the first and only flight, the tail was twisting and wagging.
The crew were not sure that the aircraft would stay whole.

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 04:48:11 PM »
Ah, that was the other thing I'd been thinking about, if the frame was strong enough.

Frank
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Offline undatc

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2010, 10:38:54 PM »
I have aerospace physics book here, I'll bring it to work with me tonight and see if I can figure out some numbers that will shed some light on this.
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Offline undatc

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2010, 08:09:47 AM »
So after a bit of searching I found the formulas we'll need to figure this out.  However now comes the hard part.  To do this, we need the chord, chamber, wing surface area, AOA, and a bunch of other specifications for the H4.  I did a bit of searching and found some but am missing pretty much all the important ones.  Ideas?
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Offline Oddball

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2010, 11:19:21 AM »
Will this help:
http://fennerschool-associated.anu.edu.au/fpt/nwfp/goose/goose.html
DIMENSIONS
 Wingspan
 320 ft
 96.9 m
 
Tailspan
 113.5 ft
 34.4 m
 
Vertical Tailspan
 49.5 ft
 15 m
 
Hull Length
 219 ft
 66.4 m
 
Hull Width
 25 ft
 7.6 m
 
Hull Height
 30 ft
 9.1 m
 
Overall Height
 79 ft
 24 m
 
Gross Weight
 300,000 lbs
 136 200 kg
 
Wing Area
 11,430 sq. ft.
 1050 sq. m
 
Max. Wing Thickness
 11.5 ft
 3.5 m
 
Payload
 130,000 lbs
 59 020 kg
 
Fuel Capacity
 14,000 gallons
 56 000 L
 
Power
 24,000 hp
 
 
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Offline undatc

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2010, 04:47:40 PM »
That a good start.  Key ones are going to be chamber, chord, and angle of attack of the wing.
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Offline Oddball

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2010, 05:11:03 PM »
What gets me is that now that Howard Hughes is dead and buried surely his last wish for the HK1 never to fly again is invalid so Evergreen should try and fly her  ;D

found the NCA numbers for the wing: Roots NACA 63(420)-321, �Tips NACA 65(420)-415

having trouble finding the AoA though  :-\
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 05:49:58 PM by Oddball »
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Offline Baradium

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Re: Could the Spruce Goose climb out of ground-effect?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2010, 06:33:20 PM »
What gets me is that now that Howard Hughes is dead and buried surely his last wish for the HK1 never to fly again is invalid so Evergreen should try and fly her  ;D

found the NCA numbers for the wing: Roots NACA 63(420)-321, �Tips NACA 65(420)-415

having trouble finding the AoA though  :-\

AOA changes in flight,  you thinking AOI?
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