Update: Heathrow B777 crash landing

[Oddball]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090313/twl-boeing-to-carry-fault-for-a-year-41f21e0.html

[Ragwing]

It will take 12 months to redesign, test (assuming no redesign) and certified.
Then the NTSB wants all 777's retrofitted within 6 months of certification.

Now what really bothers me is the 737 altimeter fault on landing.
How the heck can that fault take down an airliner?

[Fabo]

hmm... overspontaneous reaction from the crew, failing to crosscheck other indications maybe?

[TheSoccerMom]

Now what really bothers me is the 737 altimeter fault on landing.
How the heck can that fault take down an airliner?

There was a very interesting article on this, not long after that crash.  They even said that they released the accident data early, because they suspect it is affecting other 737s out there flying every day.

The Turkish crash 737 had had the altimter fail several times before the accident flight, (like 3 or 4 flights, out of the previous 20 flights?), and it was not repaired.  The accident airplane had the failure occur again when they were on final, and it was 1497 feet (I think) off.  It's connected to the autothrottles, so the airplane, thinking it was actually almost in position to land, reduced the thrust and the airplane was put into landing position.  Too bad they were out over that muddy field instead of the runway.   

They sort of came right out and said the flight crew was way behind the aircraft and that was why they were sinking fast and actually did get the stickshaker before full power was added.  They repeated again that it was not customary to release information from the FDR, etc., but they felt strongly enough that it could happen again that they did so.

Interesting how the airplane did what it "was supposed to" and the pilots did not compensate until it was too late.   

That is why I am glad the only automatic systems I have on my airplane are the giant padded hands that spring up and slap me back awake once I doze off and slump into the sensors on the seat harness.     

[Rooster Cruiser]

Interesting how the airplane did what it "was supposed to" and the pilots did not compensate until it was too late.

This is what I call "Unbelievable Complacency"!  Why on earth were they using autoland when it wasn't necessary to use autoland!?!?  Either hand fly the airplane, or have someone closely monitoring what the autopilot is doing.  Apparently these guys simply engaged the autoland and went back to their coffee or tea and forgot about it. 

No one was flying that airplane...  Unforgiveable!!!   

On to the 777.  This is an amazing development.  The oil to fuel heat exchanger itself is icing over!     Kinda tough for it to do its job if it too is iced over.  How on earth did this happen?  FOHE's have been produced for decades.  What was overlooked on this one's design?  It has proven costly...

RC

[Fabo]

Well it was really foggy that day at AMS, RC, I believe it was CAT II if not IIIa.

Needless to say, it is unforgiveable.

[TheSoccerMom]

The weather that day was misty, but with good visibility for the landing...    

At ~1500' AGL, where the altimeter malfunction bit them, they should have been IMC I am guessing, but DUH...  that's just another clue that they were not near the runway....  if I am missing something obvious here, please holler.

Narrative:
Turkish Airlines flight TK1951 departed Istanbul (IST) at 08:22 on a scheduled flight to Amsterdam-Schiphol International Airport (AMS). It was cleared for an approach to runway 18R. The Boeing 737 was on final approach, when it came down in a farm field some 1,5 km short of the runway threshold. The airplane broke in three but there was no fire.

Weather reported about 09:40 UTC (10:40 local):
EHAM 250925Z 20010KT 4500 BR SCT007 BKN008 OVC010 04/03 Q1027 TEMPO 2500=
[Wind 200 degrees, 10 kts, visibity 4500m in mist, scattered clouds 700 ft., broken clouds 800 f, overcast 1,000 ft.temperature 4 deg. C, dewpoint3 deg. C]
EHAM 250955Z 21010KT 4500 BR BKN007 OVC008 05/04 Q1027 TEMPO 2500=
[Wind 200 degrees, 10 kts, visibity 4500m in mist, broken clouds 700 f, overcast 800 ft.temperature 5 deg. C, dewpoint 4 deg. C]

[Fabo]

Hmm.. that somehow does not fit what I remember... maybe it got worse after crash and that is the milk I have seen?

Never mind, shit happens... At least I hope that will make other pilots more careful.