Author Topic: Helicopter Questions  (Read 78440 times)

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #150 on: December 04, 2006, 02:51:05 AM »
The workshop is well worth it, and it comes with the price of the rudder kit.


fireflyr

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #151 on: December 04, 2006, 04:19:09 PM »
The workshop is well worth it, and it comes with the price of the rudder kit.


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Offline switchtech

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #152 on: December 05, 2006, 02:00:26 AM »
The workshop is well worth it, and it comes with the price of the rudder kit.

Good looking work there, velojym!  You got a construction page going?  (I tried to find you on flickr - but no luck)
  (Ha, never mind - I did find you on flicker - used "Rudder Kit" !! ;)

jbs
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 02:08:02 AM by switchtech »
The sky and land joined for one brief moment, then we flew - the ground a receding memory for just a little while.

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #153 on: December 12, 2006, 05:14:21 AM »
I was just wondering, can't remember if I've asked it before but here goes: While a stuck wing's pedals probably have some centering force due to aerodynamic forces then what about helicopter pedals? Do they have a centering force in them? And what about the stick (cyclic)? I wonder if one can make better sim control by having a small gyro spinning underneath the stick, I know an important feel is the movement of the helicopter but just thinking about what can be done, and how to know more about real helicopters.

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Baradium

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #154 on: December 12, 2006, 08:30:47 AM »
Stef will do a lot better around this, but...

Especially hovering, helicopters are inherently unstable.   There isn't really a set "centered" position to keep you from turning.  You are on the controls all the time.  As far as I know, unless you have an autopilot you don't want to just let go of the controls and let it fly itself like you can with an airplane.

I won't try to get any more specific becuase there are a lot better people on this forum for it.  All my stuff is second hand from talking to chopper pilots anyway.  ;)
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
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Offline Mike

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #155 on: December 12, 2006, 05:09:37 PM »
I was just wondering, can't remember if I've asked it before but here goes: While a stuck wing's pedals probably have some centering force due to aerodynamic forces then what about helicopter pedals? Do they have a centering force in them? And what about the stick (cyclic)? I wonder if one can make better sim control by having a small gyro spinning underneath the stick, I know an important feel is the movement of the helicopter but just thinking about what can be done, and how to know more about real helicopters.

Frank

Baradium is right, there aren't really any "centering forces" on a helicopter. The Hughes helicopters have a bungy spring system in the cyclic called "trim" which sort of helps you out a little with centering so to speak. Bigger helos have something called "forced trim".
They aren't really what I would call "centering" though, since your "center" in a hover is different every day depending on crosswind, CG, and so on.
Basically you have to find your own center every time....

What they try to do with the rudder pedals and tailrotor-blades is to mostly stabilize them so it doesn't take too much force to put them in the desired position and then keep them there with minimum force. Most of them do it with counter weights.
The helicopter is a very unstable machine, that's true, but the funny thing is that you have a lot of gyroscopic laws acting on all rotating surfaces and one of them is that a gyro likes to keep it's position in space. It actually takes quite a bit to initially get anything going on a helo (that's why all the big ones have hydraulics)

There is a friction on the cyclic and the collective you can set on every helicopter. Every pilot likes them different. I like the collective friction slightly higher so I can let go of the control without it changing position and so I don't move it too much which makes me look smoother. The cyclic I have what we call "wet noodle", no friction at all, which in an AStar (thanks to hydraulics) would just make it "fall over" if I was to let go of it. So when I take my hand off I have to hold it with my knees . . .

Clear as mud?  ;)


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Offline Mike

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #156 on: December 12, 2006, 05:11:00 PM »
I won't try to get any more specific becuase there are a lot better people on this forum for it. All my stuff is second hand from talking to chopper pilots anyway. ;)

AHEM!!! (*cough*)  >:(

We like to call them "helicopters" !  ;D

Sincerely,
Chuck


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Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #157 on: December 12, 2006, 11:57:31 PM »
Thanks for the replies, it was as I suspected, and that also means that I can't learn much good from flying helicopters in FSX with the Logitech joystick I have since it has a very stiff centering spring. I do still have my old Logitech forcefeedback joystick, maybe that work better since it doesn't have a centering spring.

Mike, in your experience, what helicopter would be good for stable flights (for the pilot)? JetRanger, 500 or AStar? Speaking of helicopters and learning, I saw a Robinson today, and several other planes around Roskilde on our way home from shopping, man there were a lot of planes there today, just too bad I was being tailgated and couldn't stop and look (it was a tiny twisty backroad but the van driver didn't care, they never do). I also read an article in the novemeber 2006 issue of Flying that the writers plane had a light cover busted by a mechanic and they repaired it perfectly before he was to pick up the plane from it's service, but his Lexus got dented, scratched etc. at his garage and not even a sorry let alone repairs, this sounds a lot like what I experience here so I still say flying is better than driving. The other articles btw are also very enlightening about what mistakes not to make, even by veteran pilots, very educational and potentially life saving.

Oh yeah, about helicopters, is it more expensive to learn to fly a sling wing than a stuck wing?

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Mike

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #158 on: December 13, 2006, 01:43:47 AM »
Mike, in your experience, what helicopter would be good for stable flights (for the pilot)? JetRanger, 500 or AStar? Speaking of helicopters and learning, I saw a Robinson today . . .

. . .Oh yeah, about helicopters, is it more expensive to learn to fly a sling wing than a stuck wing?

First of, YES, helicopters are WAY more expensive to run so therefore more expensive to learn in.
Here is the rule of thumb on this: find out what a stuck wing license costs and the multiply by 3 . . . :'(   sorry!

As for the most stable:
In my experience the Hughes 500 is pretty much the easiest helicopter to fly but the AStar is a very stable platform in out-of-groundeffect hovers and turbulence (but you do have to get the hang of how to fly it first, heh heh  ;) )

I haven't flown Robinsons in a while. I remember them being pretty squirly...
Here is a picture of the last Robinson I have flown last year !!  ;D
I was on the controls the whole time (but technically I wasn't touching the Robinson controls . . . . HA HA)


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Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #159 on: December 13, 2006, 06:21:32 AM »
I guess the old saying is true: you get what you pay for. Anyway, thanks for answering my questions, and posting a really cool photo  |:)\

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Baradium

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #160 on: December 14, 2006, 04:14:34 AM »
Hmm,  I sense a story that you're holding out on there Mike!

It also looks like there are some parts missing.  ;)


Sorry, I don't have to call them "choppers"  I can also use whirly bird, egg beater, helo, and thingy.    ;)
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #161 on: December 20, 2006, 11:41:53 PM »
The workshop is well worth it, and it comes with the price of the rudder kit.

Good looking work there, velojym!  You got a construction page going?  (I tried to find you on flickr - but no luck)
  (Ha, never mind - I did find you on flicker - used "Rudder Kit" !! ;)

jbs

I'm keeping it on Flickr until I get organized enough to do a nice page. (which I plan to do eventually)
I'll let Mrs. Velo know what ya said, fireflyr... I'm sure she'll be tickled. By the way, that smile is how she snared me...
I was innocently riding my bicycle on the river trail when she hit me with it.

...and like the end of those popular credit card commercials... priceless!

fireflyr

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #162 on: December 21, 2006, 05:22:51 PM »
The workshop is well worth it, and it comes with the price of the rudder kit.

Good looking work there, velojym! You got a construction page going? (I tried to find you on flickr - but no luck)
(Ha, never mind - I did find you on flicker - used "Rudder Kit" !! ;)

jbs

I'm keeping it on Flickr until I get organized enough to do a nice page. (which I plan to do eventually)
I'll let Mrs. Velo know what ya said, fireflyr... I'm sure she'll be tickled. By the way, that smile is how she snared me...
I was innocently riding my bicycle on the river trail when she hit me with it.

...and like the end of those popular credit card commercials... priceless!

Men are such suckers for a wide smile----my soulmate lured me to the snare with the same strategy---with the same results ::bow::

Offline spacer

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Re: Helicopter Questions
« Reply #163 on: December 22, 2006, 03:29:24 AM »
The workshop is well worth it, and it comes with the price of the rudder kit.

Good looking work there, velojym!  You got a construction page going?  (I tried to find you on flickr - but no luck)
  (Ha, never mind - I did find you on flicker - used "Rudder Kit" !! ;)

jbs

At least it wasn't 'used rudder kit'... cheap!
 ::eek::

hmm... maybe a strip idea... or something about a used kit (re-kitted is a term to mean wrecked homebuilt)