Author Topic: ASI  (Read 12773 times)

Offline BREISABUTT

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Re: ASI
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2008, 03:25:14 AM »
Hello......I am Kim......the one with the question, AND there will be more questions to come!!!
I am a beginner, been a airport brat for awhile but never had the means until now to learn to fly. I will admit I'm being overwelmed by all that that I have to learn on the ground. Seems like lots of math and I'm a math idiot!!
I want to thank everyone who has tried to help me, rc you answered my question.
Oh, to slip the eartyly ties that bind!

Offline Rooster Cruiser

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Re: ASI
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2008, 03:52:46 AM »
Quote
rc you answered my question.

More than happy to oblige, Kim!  Glad to make your acquaintance.  What airport are you learning to fly at?  FUL, EMT, or POC?  In any event, feel free to fire away with questions.  If I can't answer it, somebody else probably will be happy to do so.   ;)
"Me and Earl was haulin' chickens / On a flatbed outta Wiggins..."

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Offline Oddball

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Re: ASI
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2008, 07:52:52 AM »
you would think as the trainee mech in here iwould contribute to this question......but i wont got home from work and im shattered so sorry cant help you just now :-\
"You can teach monkeys to fly better than that!"and "spring chicken to sh**e hawk in one easy lesson"

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: ASI
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2008, 06:25:46 PM »
Welcome Kim!!  How nice to see you in the Coop!!

That's great about your flying...  glad to hear you're finally getting to do what you have wanted!    ::bow::

Sure hope you will keep asking things, we all get to learn that way.    :D

The last Airspeed failure I had was actually because the mechanic had not hooked up the line at ALL....  I got the airplane out of inspection and was hurrying to head for the hills...  and he was glad to see me LEAVE, too, of course...  but on the takeoff roll, when I glanced to check if "airspeed was alive", it was sitting happily at zero...  the thing was, I was empty and so was already airborne!  (An empty airplane sure is a nice thing...)

I had a lot of runway ahead and could have landed then, but there was an airliner sitting behind me waiting to get out, so I just came around in the pattern and landed.  The mechanic had pretty big eyes when I taxied back in..  "NOW what?!!"  was written all over his face......

Like I think Leia mentioned, you get so used to what power setting and which attitude give you what performance, that you will fly the plane at the desired airspeed without having to look at the gauge....  as you go further in your flying, it's good practice to have a CFI cover up the whole panel with a bath towel so you can see this for yourself.....  fly where you think you should be, then uncover the airspeed, and Voila...  you're right on the speed!

I used to do that with nervous students, or pilots who weren't quite convinced about power + pitch = performance.  It gives you a lot of confidence in your airplane, and in yourself, too.

Welcome to the Coop!!   ::bow:: 
Don't make me come back there!!!!

Offline BREISABUTT

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Re: ASI
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2008, 04:47:49 PM »
Hi everyone,

I'm back with another question. Spent the whole weekend trying to finishing my homework project,  and I was able to anwser all but one question.
What are the common potential errors of the turn indicator?
I can find anything online or in the books I have................HELP!

Kim
Oh, to slip the eartyly ties that bind!

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: ASI
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2008, 04:57:05 PM »
Hey there!   :)

Do you mean turn indicator?  Or turn coordinator? 

Do you have a copy of the long-standing FAA Flight Training Handbook?   If not I'll send you what it says.... 

 8) 
Don't make me come back there!!!!

Offline Oddball

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Re: ASI
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2008, 07:54:57 PM »
i suppose if you skid in a turn the indicator will give a wrong reading...dont hold me to that will have to read up on my instruments again
"You can teach monkeys to fly better than that!"and "spring chicken to sh**e hawk in one easy lesson"

airtac

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Re: ASI
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2008, 08:50:15 PM »
Kim, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're asking but I'll give it a shot with some generalized information.

First, there's 2 kinds of turn indicators, one is a turn and slip indicator (needle and ball in window) which, because the gyro is mounted horizontally, only senses rotation about the aircrafts vertical axis.  When you roll into a turn with this instrument it won't indicate anything until the airplane actually begins turning.

The second type is a turn coordinator (little airplane and ball in window) which has the gyro mounted at about a 30 degree angle from horizontal and thereby indicates BOTH roll and yaw.   With this instrument, the little airplane in the window shows the roll into the turn even before the airplane itself begins to turn.

I'm guessing that if the question was asking about error, they might have had that difference in mind.  If that's not what you had in mind please feel free to clarify the question.

And don't feel put off if some of our answers seem frivolous----this is a sho-nuff funny bunch of folks here ::loony::

Offline FlyboyGil

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Re: ASI
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2008, 10:24:15 PM »
----this is a sho-nuff funny bunch of folks here ::loony::

That's not true! We're all normal down to earth...........BWA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!! I knew I wouldn't be able to type that!! Yeah we're all nuts ::loony::, but have fun being that way!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
IF YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING NICE, YOU'RE PROBABLY AT THE ICE CAPADES

Offline Oddball

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Re: ASI
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2008, 10:38:59 PM »
you have to be slightly nuts to do some thing that is unnatural to us squirels  ::loony:: ;)
"You can teach monkeys to fly better than that!"and "spring chicken to sh**e hawk in one easy lesson"

Offline Rooster Cruiser

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Re: ASI
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2008, 10:41:23 PM »
Kim, turn indicators and turn coordinators do not normally have any problems unless they have no power applied to them.  Pehaps you are referring to the gyroscopic precession errors that an Artificial Horizon is subject to?  If a pilot in a standard cockpit (Read:  NOT Glass Cockpit.  I am referring to mechanical gyros in this case) rolls out of a 180 degree turn to wings level based only on the Artificial Horizon, the airplane will actually be banked about 5 degrees or so in the OPPOSITE direction that the turn was done in.  This is the point at which the precession error is most pronounced.  On a 360 degree turn, the precession error will cancel out during the second half of the turn and the airplane will be wings level if the pilot uses only the artificial horizon to roll out to wings level.

Glass cockpits use laser gyros for their displays which are not subject to precession error.

RC
"Me and Earl was haulin' chickens / On a flatbed outta Wiggins..."

Wolf Creek Pass, by CW McCall

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: ASI
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2008, 11:47:08 PM »
I was waiting to see if Kim had a copy of the Flight Training Handbook, because I am a lazy no-gooder and it takes me forever to type things.  But while I'm waiting for the therapist to call, I'll start on what the old book says, for her reference.  It's an old book but hey, the air hasn't changed, either.

The turn and slip indicator shows the direction and rate at which the airplane is turning and at the same time whether the airplane is slipping sideward.  It is actually a combination of two instruments, a broad needle and a ball.  The turn needle depends on gyroscopic properties of precession for its indications and the ball is affected by gravity and centirfugal force.

The turn indicator, being a gyroscopic instrument, indicates the direction and rate at which the airplane is turning about its vertical axis.  It responds only to the rate of yaw.  (The more modern "turn coordinator" also indicates the rate of roll about the airplane's longitudinal axis since it responds to both roll and yaw.)  Unlike the attitude indicator, neither of these instruments gives a direct indication of the degree of bank of the airplane.  However, for any given airspeed, there is a definite angle of bank necessary to maintain a coordinated turn at a given rate.  The faster the airspeed, the greater the angle of bank required to obtain a given rate of turn.  Thus, the turn indicator and the turn coordinator give only an indirect indication of the airplane's banking attitude or angle of bank during a coordinated turn.
 

That's a LOT of information, in just two paragraphs.  The turn indicator is the little stubby needle;  the turn coordinator is the little horizontal airplane figure.  The turn indicator responds to ONLY the rate of yaw (motion about the vertical axis).  The turn coordinator (little plane) responds to rate of YAW, AND rate of ROLL, both (vertical AND longitudinal axes).
 
And, the little ball sitting in the tiny tube at the bottom of each instrument is the omen, depending on how much you swing it from side to side, on how quickly your passengers will get sick.  Ha!   ::sick::

Good question, by the way.....   ::wave::

 8)
Don't make me come back there!!!!

Offline BREISABUTT

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Re: ASI
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2008, 04:56:14 AM »
Hi, thanks again for all the help!!!!!
Soccormom, no I do not have the FAA handbook, the books I've been using are Gleim's Instrument Pilot, Gleim's Private Pilot, and ASA From the Ground Up. Anything else would be another big help.
The home work question were for the six pack instruments,  Airspeed Indicator, Attitude Indicator, Altimeter, Vertical Speed Indicator, Directional Gyro,Turn Coordinator.
I have to answer the same 6  questions for each one of those instruments.

Here are the question:
 1- Generally, How does the insrument work and what is it's power source?
 2- What are the main markings on the instruments and significance of the markings?
 3- What do the different colors represent, if applicable?
 4- How can you identify if the instrument becomes inoperative?
 5- Can you make adjustments on the instruments, How?
 6- What are the common potential errors of the instrument?

I have been able to answer all but the last one on the turn coordinato (little airplane and the ball in the glass tube), but pression sounds like it might be what I'm looking for. I have to turn this in tomorrow.
My next challege is figuring out the density altitude, crosswind performance, takeoff/landing charts. lots of numbers for this here math idiot!!!!
Oh, to slip the eartyly ties that bind!

Offline Fabo

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Re: ASI
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2008, 10:03:28 AM »
Never quite got density altitude myself... I just play with secondary altimeter normally ::)
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Offline Rooster Cruiser

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Re: ASI
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2008, 11:59:17 AM »
Kim, the turn coordinator is electrically driven.  There is a little red flag that will pop up in a window when there is no power to the instrument.  You can also check for proper operation by turning on the master switch and listen for the sound of the gyro spooling up.  No sound indicates the gyro is not turning and the turn coordinator is inoperative.

That should suffice for your ground school.

RC
"Me and Earl was haulin' chickens / On a flatbed outta Wiggins..."

Wolf Creek Pass, by CW McCall