Author Topic: Tanker 910  (Read 5614 times)

Offline PiperGirl

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Tanker 910
« on: February 07, 2008, 07:45:40 PM »
I just read a cool article about the DC-10 fire tanker in Airliners magazine. (unfortuntaly I can't find the article on line). The article says that the DC-10 can hold approx. 12,000 gallons of water or retardant. It was certified in July 2006 by the CDF (California dept of forestry), and was used on the Sawtooth fire later that month. It flew missions on 8 fires in '07.  It's cost per hour - - - - $26,500!!!!  :o Have any of you fire types worked a fire with this beauty?
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airtac

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 11:53:18 PM »
I haven't worked with it yet, and the facts are that it may not be able to do as much good as people would like it to--It's another tool in our box and may be able to be helpful when terrain is flat enough.
The machine is too unresponsive because of high weight and speed to be able to work down low in limited areas like hilly or mountainous terrain.  Normal heavy tankers like a P-2V or a P-3 can slow to about 120 knots at 100 feet to make a nice concentrated drop thereby building a line of retardent with which the fire can slowed enough for the ground troops to catch it, plus, they can do it in canyons and steep uneven terrain.   The DC-10 is simply too big to work in the majority of the places where retardant is needed.
As far as dropping water---that's something helicopters can do the best because the can concentrate it in a very small area.  I'm afraid that the only thing a DC 10 can do with water is to change the relative humidity at the fire site for a few minutes at most (in most cases).
It's a high profile case of political foo faw to make agency chiefs and politicians look good when folks are pissed at being burned out.   The money would MUCH better spent on engines and training personnel to put out the fires on the ground.   |:)\
Let me repeat something---PEOPLE ON THE GROUND PUT THE FIRES OUT! |:)\ |:)\ |:)\ |:)\ |:)\

Offline Mike

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2008, 06:43:36 PM »
I agree with Airtac.
Saw this thing do a drop once down in Palms Springs at the Heritage Fire. Made a high pass, sprinkled retarant through a pretty wide area, which was impressive. But the retardant wasn't concentrated enough to do anything. Made a 2ft layer on top of 5ft tall brush and the fire burned right underneath it like nothing happened. Dozers with the help of helicopters put that fire out.
The other problem I saw was that they cleared to whole fire for this huge airplane to come in and it makes a difference having a couple of Skycranes work the fire and then having to hold for half an hour while this thing makes it's pass. I don't know what a Crane can hold exactly, but if you have only 2 Cranes working with roughly a capacity of 1,200 gallons each and a turn-around time of 4 minutes each, that's 15 times 1,200 gallon drops so 18,000 gallons of water that are not getting to the fire while this thing makes it's run.....
See what I am getting at?!  ;)
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Offline Mike

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2008, 06:49:04 PM »
edit: a Crane can lift 2,200 gallons of water at 1500ft. So we can easily count 1,800 gallons per drop. Erickson says roughly 30,000 gallons per hour per Crane.

http://www.ericksonaircrane.com/press/ElvisWebRelease.html
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airtac

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 06:54:52 PM »
edit: a Crane can lift 2,200 gallons of water at 1500ft. So we can easily count 1,800 gallons per drop. Erickson says roughly 30,000 gallons per hour per Crane.

http://www.ericksonaircrane.com/press/ElvisWebRelease.html

AND, a crane is only (a relative term) about $7,000 an hour |:)\

I gotta tellya, I absolutely side with the helicopter drivers on this one  ::eek:: (oops, did I say that?)


Offline Mike

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 09:04:27 PM »
woah! coming from you? a highly appreciated honor!

 thanks for saying it out loud!!  |:)\

I am sitting here in the office right next to the rate sheet for contracts awarded 2005-2007

CH 64 . . . . $6,370.00 USD per hour

(and the yellow Carson ships go for $3,203 USD per hour)


what a bargain!!  ;) ::)
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Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 11:53:48 PM »
I've heard reports similar to Mike's and Airtac's.  It's a good tool but has its limitations.  Of course when the DC-4s, -6s, and -7s started as tankers, the comment was also "they're way too big to get down low".  A generation of superb pilots has proved that wrong!   |:)\ 

Videos of the other supertanker's drops (the B-747) were IMPRESSIVE...  but it was a pretty open, flatter-type drop target.  Like Airtac says, every fire tool  has its niche, and fires in more open country would gain with these machines.


Gee, so you can get TEN Minivans for ONE -64, huh????    ::thinking::   

And I thought all those comments about being "a cheap date" were aimed at me.....    ::sulk::

 :D


Don't make me come back there!!!!

airtac

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2008, 02:01:25 AM »
YOU, "a cheap date"  HAH!, don't forget I bought you breakfast the last time I saw you---I had no idea a little woman like you could eat that much---I shoulda had a clue when you ordered pages 2 and 3 on the menu :o


OK everybody, I'm lying---but it's more fun than the truth :D

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 02:08:50 AM »
Heh heh, the only reason I didn't order Page 1 also, was that it was torn off....   ;D

We need to do that again...   ;)   I'll call and have them issue the NOTAM...    ::silly::    ::whistle::    ::drinking::

Don't make me come back there!!!!

airtac

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2008, 02:33:59 AM »
Heh heh, the only reason I didn't order Page 1 also, was that it was torn off....   ;D

We need to do that again...   ;)   I'll call and have them issue the NOTAM...    ::silly::    ::whistle::    ::drinking::


Sooooo, what's the wording on the NOTAM?   Better not be like last time; "half blind, semi drunk, senile senior pilot expected to roar into BOI sometime before noon"---I didn't appreciate that one ::complaining:

Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2008, 02:35:51 AM »
Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of "National Security" and "Imminent Danger to Public Safety".....    :-*

 :-*

 ::rofl::
Don't make me come back there!!!!

Offline undatc

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Re: Tanker 910
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2008, 02:58:09 AM »
Evergreen aviation also has one of these guys.

http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/whyst.html



I might be getting to work with this guy in the future.  Just applied for a job with Evergreen.
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...