Kind of an interesting thread . . .

[Mike]

. . . they had over at the AOPA forum. This is what a guy posted over there. I just wanted to see what you guys think. Looks like a "Chicken Wings" kind of subject...

Check it out:

My neighboor is a radio DJ and he got a story of the wire and shared it about Brad Pitt and his solo flying abilities. If I remember right isn't Pitt training in a Cirrus, if so that seems a little high performance for a student. Anyway, here is the email he sent me.

We got it off the wire, here is our version...

Brad Pitt Can Fly an Airplane, He Just Can't Land One

*PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEAR THE SANTA MONICA AIRPORT ARE KEEPING THEIR FINGERS CROSSED THAT BRAD PITT REALLY IS MOVING TO FRANCE -- HIS FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR HAS SIGNED OFF ON A SPECIAL DOCUMENT THAT ALLOWS BRAD TO FLY SOLO -- EVER SINCE THEN, HE'S BEEN MAKING ALL KINDS OF DANGEROUS MISTAKES

-- BRAD DOESN'T HAVE ANY TROUBLE FLYING THE PLANE -- HIS PROBLEM IS WHEN HE TRIES TO LAND -- HE COMES IN SO LOW THAT PEOPLE IN THEIR HOUSES ARE RUNNING FOR COVER -- EITHER THAT, OR HE'LL COME IN SO HIGH, IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S GOING TO LAND IN THE PACIFIC OCEAN!

-- A PILOT AT THE SANTA MONICA AIRPORT SAID "I SAW HIM LAND SO HARD, HE HIT THE RUNWAY & BOUNCED UP IN THE AIR, SO HE HAD TO ADD POWER, TAKE OFF, CIRCLE THE AIRPORT, AND TRY AGAIN. THAT'S CALLED A 'GO-AROUND'. ONE DAY, HE MADE SO MANY 'GO-AROUNDS', WE WERE AFRAID HE'D RUN OUT OF GAS" -- ANOTHER VETERAN PILOT SAID "LET ME KNOW WHEN BRAD GETS HIS LICENSE. THAT'S THE DAY I'M TURNING MINE IN"...

Any feedback from the fun-loving guys at Roost-Air???

[Inept]

The Cirrus is a rather... umm... interesting choice of a trainer, but it could be worse...   It is legal for someone to do their primary training in a multi-engine aircraft, and there are regulations covering it in the Private Pilot PTS.

This may just be the nieve, low-time pilot talking, but if he is consistantly unable to land (everyone has trouble every once in a while  ), why in the world did his instructor give him a solo endorsement?

[Gulfstream Driver]

Could be that his instructor just pencil whipped him through, but I hope that's not the case.  I won't sign off on a student until I'm sure he's ready.  I'd say it's more likely that he had a bad day and it's being blown out of proportion.  On one of my first flights from the right seat, we had to do 3 or 4 go-arounds just to make one landing.  Tower made fun of us.   

[Mike]

Actually it turned out to be a C-172.
My guess is that this was written by a reporter who is not a pilot.
I feel bad for him. I think solo-ing is enough stress, let alone doing it in Santa Monica AND with everybody and the paparazzies watching you with cameras....
Could be pretty exaggerated as well...

[Gulfstream Driver]

How does a 172 get mistaken for a Cirrus?   

[Turbomallard]

How does a 172 get mistaken for a Cirrus?   

Easy to do if you're an ignorant "journalist" covering "famous people" and know nothing about flying. And are more interested in getting a scoop in the tabloids than doing an accurate story. All those "little airplanes" are Piper Cubs, don't ya know!

TM

[Mike]

How does a 172 get mistaken for a Cirrus?   

Easy to do if you're an ignorant "journalist" covering "famous people" and know nothing about flying. And are more interested in getting a scoop in the tabloids than doing an accurate story. All those "little airplanes" are Piper Cubs, don't ya know!

TM

Amen Brother!!

[Frank N. O.]

Funny you should mention celebrities, I was looking thrue pages of aviation jokes just a few hours ago and found what appeared to be a proposal for famous pilots to have extra ratings to be allowed to fly to avoid bad manouvres etc.

Speaking of reporters misunderstanding things (and I agree, mistaking a Cirrus for a Skyhawk is way out there so obviously this person was perhaps just flinging names without knowing how either looked like, but that just makes it even weirder to use such a new small company name) then remember the airliner that had to land with the nosewheel fully turned 90 degrees? The reporter covering the live landing said: The other wheels seems to be turned correctly, how many planes have main gears that turn?? Not many, especially not civilian low-wing planes that I know off. "Things that make you go: Oh man what a dork"

Frank

[fireflyr]

"Things that make you go: Oh man what a dork"

Frank

HAHAHAHA, Please, no more, my sides hurt!

I didn't hear the one about the report of the mains being turned correctly but after years of watching the press totally mangle everything they report about airplanes, I can believe it.

As for Brad Pitt, I'm glad that another celebrity has expressed an interest in aviation.   Look at how much good publicity we have gotten with Harrison Ford, John Travolta, the guy who plays "Worf" on Star Trek TNG (dang-what's his name), and others.   I'm sure things can be harder in some ways for them because they are under the watchfull eye of the press but let's face it, most of them have more money than a bank so they can afford to keep trying until they get it right---unlike us mere mortals who count every penney we spend.  I've never blown a checkride simply because I couldn't afford to!!!!
Speaking of instruction, maybe some of you pro instructors out there could help me.  I have not given a lot of basic instruction and I have an instrument student who is having a hard time developing a scan.   It has been a long time since I was at this stage and I forget how I really learned this.   I know what the manuals say (even went out and bought one) and I can't teach the method I use which I can't really define because I just glance at the damn panel and see what's happening.  What works best for you with a slooooow student?   This guy's a friend and I can't turn him down but man, it's tough teaching someone who's not really super-interested in doing it right.
OH, I forgot to mention that we are using his airplane, a 1956 172 with a Garmin 430 in a panel that looks like it was installed with a blunderbuss.  It's even challenging for me to find and process data with instruments scattered from door to door---I tried to get him to rent an airplane but he's adamant about learning in his own airplane.    HELP!!!!

This could lead to a new thread on humor if you instructor types would start with some of your, let's say, 'uninspired' students and relate some of those golden moments.

Jim

[Frank N. O.]

Btw I completely forgot to mention that the Airbus made a perfect and safe emergency landing, staying on all wheels, and what was left of the main gear, and to my memory no-one was hurt, a truly impressive emergency landing and my praise and respect to the pilots! Sorry for forgetting it, I know some people out there just loves to see crashes, regardless if people got hurt or not, and let's just say I dislike watching that and don't really understand those people, and if people got hurt in a video I get sad and sick watching it however some people don't feel that way, no further comment since I'm sure you all here see it my way.

Commander Worf is played by Michael Dorn btw, and I didn't know he was a pilot, I did know about Mr. Scientlogy and his Quantas 707, but Harrison Ford to my knowledge is also a pilot, helicopter no less and was in a runway incersion (spelling?) awareness video for the FAA according to an article in either Plane and Pilot or Flying magazine I have.

Regarding your student, why is he trying to learn to fly if he's not interested? With all due respect, if one's not interested or focused then being pilot-in-command of any flying machine is not a good place to be, it's bad enough with drivers in cars with ESP, Brake-Assist etc. but a plane with all those instruments, ATC, manouvrering factors etc. that's bad. I sadly can't help you with any technique either, I've only driven a car so far apart from the 15 minutes in the Cardinal and driving comes naturally for me, which is why it's critical to be in a car that works like I want it and expect, so no tips to give sorry.
Btw, what's a blunderbuss?

I do understand the problem with instruments scattered around, hence my own idea of redesigned sportsplane with the interior designed with digital instruments all made to fit together in a cutstom car-like curved panel giving both seating comfort and space-feel but also easy use and read-out of instruments, if I may I'd like to post some details later in another thread to ask you real-life pilots if it could work, or would be allowed, although the idea is actually to make it easier for myself to fly if it ever got built so it should definately be legal. Btw I call it a sportplane since it's meant as a flying equivalent of a Grand Touring sportscar like a Porsche 928 or late-model Corvette coupe for instance but it would be a fully equipped GA plane like a Mooney or Commander 115 etc.

Greetings
Frank

[fireflyr]

Thanks for the reply, Frank.
I guess I should have said "uninspired" instead of uninterested---some folks want something (like an instrument rating) just to be able to say they have it so they don't pursue it with the same passion that I would.   And it is my responsibility to teach someone a skill properly no matter what his motives are.  My student has had a private license and his own airplane for about 20 years--my motivation is to try to make a safer pilot of him.

A blunderbus is a smoothbore shotgun type weapon used by the Spaniards in their conquest of the new world, it had a bell shaped barrel and it splattered shot everywhere so when I say the panel looks like it was installed with a blunderbus, I'm trying to explain (in a humorous way) that the instruments are scattered around the panel in a VERY random fashion--- loses a lot in translation, HUH?   

Yes, Micheal Dorn is a pilot, flys his own F-86 jet among other aircraft.  He keeps a low profile.

And I have a question for you, what does "btw" mean? 


A

[Frank N. O.]

Ah I see, well I would've thought/hoped after 20 years this person could fly better, but at least the person's still alive, but as J Mac McLellan (spelling?) wrote in a magazine article then it might not be how many hours you have in total but how big a concentration you've had and at least for me driving that has worked, but then again driving was our only vacation in my family and my dad the freedom of driving even when driving a big truck each day so I've been raised with driving, I do seem to remember him wanting to be a pilot but he had a lazy eye in 58 when drafted so he was assigned to transport tanks instead.

Btw = By The Way, sorry for talking too abbreviated, I was trying to keep the post short. And by the way IIRC = If I Recall Correctly, also used a lot at least by me

Don't feel bad about the explanation about the panel, now I know what a blunderbuss is that explanation is very describing

Michael Dorn has an F-86, wow! I do remember seeing someone with an ex-RDAF (Royal Danish Airforce) jet tightly parked diagonally on a small front lawn at a main road between Vejle and Billund in DK, a Sabre I think, the one with the wide oval intake nose but I doubt it could fly anymore.

Greetings
Frank

[Gulfstream Driver]

So many posts!!   

Shotgun panels are tough to deal with.  There's a reason all the instrument panels look the same now.  Does he at least have a six-pack, or are those instruments scattered as well?

What I teach my students is the circular or continuous scan.  On a normal six-pack, start with the airspeed indicator and just scan across through attitude, altimeter, down to VSI, across through HI, turn coordinator or turn-and-slip, and back up to airspeed.  Then, when you get into navigation, it's easy to include the VOR heads in the scan as well.  With scattered instruments, it's harder, but there should be some kind of pattern he can establish, even if he has to scan all the way across the panel.  You can have him skip over VOR heads, radios, etc. at first, just picking out the basic attitude instruments.  (Easier said then done, I know.)  Maybe draw out his instrument panel on a white board or piece of paper and have him talk you through his scan, once you establish one. 

As for teaching the uninspired, it's tough.  I had to deal with that in my very first primary student ever.  He only wanted to come in once a week, and it was really hard to get him excited about flying.  Is there anything about flying that excites your friend?  You could try using that as a reward at the end of a lesson.  "If we do an hour of basic attitude, we can do some stalls before we go back."  Remind him that the instrument ticket will save his butt in a pinch.  I think it's the MOST important rating/certificate you can get.  And, it's probably better that he learns in his own airplane, even though it's harder to teach.  Trying to go from a standard panel to a shotgun is a lot harder than going the other way.  Also, it's probably best that you're teaching him.  After 20 years of flying, if he had a young instructor just out of school, he may reject a lot of important information.  "Old" people don't like "kids" telling them what to do.   

As for the Airbus mishap, I was very impressed with the landing the pilots made.  (Or was it the plane?  It's hard to tell with the Airbus.)  I was also impressed with the fire that leapt up from the nosewheel whenever it went over a runway stripe. 

Frank, I would love to see what your idea for a new panel is.  Is there any way to scan a drawing and post it?

[Mike]

I agree with Gulfstream.
It doesn't matter which scan out of the book you use but you have to stick with the one you choose. I have the same problem, I just "see" the whole panel. So will he probably one day but until he does....
As for the scattered panel: Pfew!! that's messed up. I think I would be pretty confused without the six-pack....


Here is a question I like to ask our experienced stuck wing pilots:

Was it really that hard to land that airbus with the nose gear exactly 90 degrees out?

I mean, you still have the reverse thrusters, both brakes, the rudder, and so on to keep you aligned on the runway... Everybody was "wow, cool, what a great pilot, he's a hero!!"""

It just seems to me like a running landing in a helicopter. We practice these in case our tailrotor gets stuck or we are too heavy and can't hover. You just land the helo like a plane and skid it on and you can totally keep it on the center line until it stops even though the helo doesn't have any wheels or brakes at all....
He still did a nice job, don't get me wrong.

[Gulfstream Driver]

You're right, it shouldn't be that hard to land a plane with the nose wheel 90 deg. off.  My concern, if I were the pilot, would be "Is it exactly 90 deg. or is it at some other odd angle".  I don't know that the Airbus would be able to tell me that.  Granted, you have two (or four, I can't remember the model) thrust reversers and the brakes, but you're still coming down final at 150 kts, touching down at 120 (estimates).  That's pretty quick and you have to be on your toes.