Author Topic: Aviation Safety Final  (Read 8090 times)

Offline undatc

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Aviation Safety Final
« on: December 04, 2007, 07:16:41 AM »
So finals start next week for me.  Good and bad.  My last set of finals ever, however I have to survive them.  Having some difficulty studying for my Avit 208 final, cant find some of the answers for it.  Hoping maybe one of you might have an answer or an idea on some of these.

84) Pilots are required under the FAR's to give written notification of speeding related traffic convictions within _______ days of that action.  didnt think you had to, unless it involved alcohol....

78) Developing an ice flying strategy is knowing where ice generally forms...

53) You have the flight controls.  I have the flight controls. You have the flight controls.  This is now industry standard phraseology resulted from?

48) Deep rooted tendency to continue original plan

19) Stare but see nothing, refers to?

20) one eyes sees - the other does not, refers to?


Not sure if any knows these but if you do it would be appreciated. 
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...

Offline Fabo

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 05:47:40 PM »
53) You have the flight controls.  I have the flight controls. You have the flight controls.  This is now industry standard phraseology resulted from?

Some funny plane where you actually did move yoke from side to side? I think there was such in The Aviator. Or this is one example. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1219196/L/
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Offline undatc

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 08:54:47 PM »
I've talked about that question with a couple of people, and we think it has to do with the flight that crashed in the Florida everglades.  The crew to to preoccupied trying to figure out what caused a light to go out, so no one was flying the plane, and ended up crashing into the swamp.  The problem is, we cant find anything that confirms what we think.
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Offline Fabo

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 09:11:50 PM »
I've talked about that question with a couple of people, and we think it has to do with the flight that crashed in the Florida everglades.  The crew to to preoccupied trying to figure out what caused a light to go out, so no one was flying the plane, and ended up crashing into the swamp.  The problem is, we cant find anything that confirms what we think.

Plane was on AP... the only problem was that the AP turned itself out randomly and the plane entered a shallow descent... Anyway I thought they would notice sooner. They just fired the engines up seconds before hitting it...
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Offline Baradium

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CFIT and the Ghost in the machine
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2007, 08:53:44 AM »
I've talked about that question with a couple of people, and we think it has to do with the flight that crashed in the Florida everglades.  The crew to to preoccupied trying to figure out what caused a light to go out, so no one was flying the plane, and ended up crashing into the swamp.  The problem is, we cant find anything that confirms what we think.

Plane was on AP... the only problem was that the AP turned itself out randomly and the plane entered a shallow descent... Anyway I thought they would notice sooner. They just fired the engines up seconds before hitting it...

This made me think of stuff, so I'm going to ramble.  I'll explain acronyms for those that may not know them.

Some older airplanes did have a "throw over yoke" where you actually move the controls from one side to the other.  They aren't very common these days... I can't imagine doing flight training with one of those.


This crash is used regularly for teaching CRM (crew resource management).  It didn't turn itself off, they accidently did it themselves and didn't notice.  I don't know if they ever really realized what was happening.   The had a burned out landing gear bulb, so they weren't getting their "three green" to show all 3 gear were down.  I've dealt with this problem a few times myself now.  Three or four times it was the bulb, once it wasn't.  The key (and the problem they had) is to make sure there is always someone actively flying the airplane.  It can be easy to get distracted, which is what happened to them.  Unfortunately, everyone wanted to "help out" and so no one was monitoring the instruments.


These days we have much more advanced TAWS (Terrain Awareness Warning System) and GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System) equipment (well, back then they didn't really have any).  Today they'd start receiving various alerts well before they got to a point of serious danger.  The two systems work on different methods.  The TAWS is the newer system and uses GPS along with a stored terrain database.  It calculates the aircraft's position and movement relative to the terrain and sounds an alert based on different protocols involving clearance requirements and proximity to when the trend of movement would break the clearance requirements (TERRAIN! TERRAIN! PULL UP! PULL UP!).   This system was devised after a Flying Tigers (now part of FedEx) 747 went into a mountain on a complex NDB approach in a situation where the GPWS did not give adequate warning due to sharply rising terrain.  It starts out slow and gets louder and faster as it gets closer to its calculated critical decision point.

The GPWS, which is the older system, is one I believe may have been instituted because of this Florida crash.  It simply works off the radar altimeter and sounds an alert if the aircraft appears to be descending too quickly (SINK RATE! SINK RATE!),  is starting to sink (lose altitude) on climbout after takeoff (DON'T SINK! DON'T SINK!), or is approaching the ground without being in a specified configuration (TOO LOW... GEAR! TOO LOW... GEAR!,  also works for flaps).

In the case of the crash in Florida, no one noticed until it was too late.  The two modes of terrain avoidance systems were developed to try to ensure those types of crashes do not happen again.  Both of the above examples were CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain).  In one example there was no on in positive control monitoring the aircraft, in the second both crew members were monitoring instruments, but they became confused about which "step down" they were on in the approach and descended early.


Rambling on from the Florida crash.  The story goes that after the crash (and which was apparently standard practice back then) some parts were salvaged from the wreck.  Small stuff, like a microwave and some other units.  The legend is that the aircraft that these parts were installed in were haunted, wish one aircraft in particular bearing the brunt of them.  The ghosts were said to have warned crews about upcoming problems or danger. 

Here's a link that I found after a quick search:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Haunted-Skies--Ghosts-of-the-Eastern-401-Disaster&id=545609


I know this is only somewhat related to the thread, but I hope everyone found it interesting.

"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline Fabo

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2007, 10:34:04 AM »
I got to this plane thru L-1011 division of Delta VA. Definitely an interesting story. If I recall correctly there was a problem with two flight computers - they were both different types, and required different yoke pressure to turn off AP. So I think it happened that AP was turned off, but the alarm bell did not ring (as it should).

I used this site as source of most information that time. http://eastern401.googlepages.com/
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Offline Baradium

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2007, 03:56:35 PM »
I got to this plane thru L-1011 division of Delta VA. Definitely an interesting story. If I recall correctly there was a problem with two flight computers - they were both different types, and required different yoke pressure to turn off AP. So I think it happened that AP was turned off, but the alarm bell did not ring (as it should).

I used this site as source of most information that time. http://eastern401.googlepages.com/

Very possible...  my main disagreement there would simply be that I feel that more constitutes inadvertantly being turned off instead of it turning off itself (also a situation that can happen).

From a CRM perspective,  the main concern is the lack of awareness.  Even with autopilot engaged, someone should be monitoring it.
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline undatc

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2007, 07:17:12 PM »
Baradium, you and I were right.

I took the final last Thursday, and the question was multiple choice.  Of the available answers the only one that made sense was, "no one flying the plane".  Thanks for the help, pretty sure I did decent on the final, had to correct my professor on one question, he didn't have the correct answer listed so that was interesting.  Now for my remaining three finals and graduation....
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Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2007, 06:55:54 AM »
Jeez, you coulda just done what pilots would do, and cheated.....    ::whistle::

 :D 
Don't make me come back there!!!!

Offline undatc

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2007, 03:12:11 PM »
Jeez, you coulda just done what pilots would do, and cheated.....    ::whistle::

 :D 

Hahaha.  I try not to.  Actually of my finals I have left none should be to hard.  Looks like I might retain Magna Cum Laude honors when graduating so I'm pretty excited about that.  I'm off for a PXW 327 Fitness for life final now.  Lata.
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Offline happylanding

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2007, 09:25:38 PM »
Looks like I might retain Magna Cum Laude honors when graduating so I'm pretty excited about that.

Holy cow, mate! that's great! keep us adjourned, okay?
 |:)\ |:)\
I give that landing a 9 . . . on the Richter scale.

Offline Fabo

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 12:23:21 PM »
Sounds all Greek to me, and since I am no Nick, can somebody explain what Magna Cum Laude is?

OK I know it is latin, but just no fit ::)
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Offline AirScorp

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 02:27:56 PM »
It means "With great honour"! Yup, done latin in school, don't ask!
It's all Greek to me!

Offline undatc

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 06:33:39 PM »
Here in the US, not sure about the rest of the world, when you graduate above a certain Grade Point Average you get honors. 

Here at UND there are 3 levels of honors, Suma Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude, and Cum Laude, with gpa,s 3.8 and above, 3.5 and above, and 3.2 and above respectively.

Know you know, and knowing is half the battle, GI JOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEE.  |:)\     (<-- childhood movie quote, sorry...)
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Offline undatc

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Re: Aviation Safety Final
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2007, 09:03:48 AM »
Grades were just posted.  Graduated Magna Cum Laude with a Cumlative GPA of a 3.514.  Now begins the wait for the FAA to call me.  ::sleep::
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