Author Topic: A Question for you Current CFIs, AND Active Students (PPL, CPL, Inst., etc.)  (Read 20283 times)

Offline TheSoccerMom

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I have a question:

Do you (as CFIs) instruct your students to read and use the Pilot / Controller Glossary?  Do you use it as a part of your active instructing?

Do you (all level of students receiving instruction, or BFRs) know what the P / C Glossary is?  Does your instructor use it as a part of your training?  And if so, do you feel you would understand the basics of ATC communication without it?

Thanks in advance.....  appreciate any input you have on this.

 8)

Don't make me come back there!!!!

airtac

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Actually, I never considered it much until I gave a couple of BFRs and listened to some (old time) pilots struggling on the radio--I'm a believer now ::bow::

Offline Mike

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I have to be honest, mom.
I don't even know what that is. Is it a stuck wing thing?


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Offline TheSoccerMom

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That's why I love ya, baby -- you ARE so honest!!  hee hee.

Naw, it's used to make sure radio communication is standardized, and I just have been wondering if it's NOT being used with new students.  I'm hearing all kinds of weird radio phrases, and the most recent occasion was with a new commercial pilot.  I was astounded, to be honest...  his radio work was incredibly bad.  It made me wonder how on earth he could have gotten through a checkride, talking like he did. 

It's published in the back of those combo FAR /AIM books.... 

Just wondering...  thanks Mike and Airtac!!   ::wave::
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Offline Rooster Cruiser

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S-Mom, when I was instructing, I would tell my students to buy the FAR/AIM with the P/C Glossary in it, then put the book under their pillow at night with the P/C Glossary side nearest their head.  It would then be absorbed by their brains during the night by Osmosis, see?

Are you trying to say that this technique didn't work?   ::eek::
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Offline undatc

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Ahh the PCG.  Its stuck in the back of the 7110.65 yet many atc students here barely know it exists.

I think if more pilots were to read this and learn this, it would resolve many communication issues between controllers and pilots in the system.  Many terms used by ATC can be unfamilar and being familiar with this and using correct phraseology will clear up the airwaves.

In general the things that cause controllers to work slow is not the job task, but actually saying the words. By making clear and concise read backs of clearances, and clear short requests, we can handle more takes and are able to put effort into getting you where you want to go. 
-the content of the previous post does not represent the opinions of the FAA or NATCA, and is my own personal opinion...

Offline Frank N. O.

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Very good post mom! Communication is very very important indeed. A clip from one Rod Machado's videos also showed a technique to help the problem und mentioned. Rod said (and I'm paraphrasing to the best of my memory): If you're flying and want to know if the weather up ahead is bad then instead of asking for the weather you can ask if any small planes were diverted due to weather, which the controller can just answer with a simple yes or no instead of a long description. This is especially useful if there are several other planes the controller needs to talk to (busy radio-talk).

I for one would take it as granted that as a pilot I'd need to make sure I understood and used the phrases that the controller uses to avoid any accidents and other negative incidents.

It's the perfect trifecta: Pilot-talk, tech-talk (mechanic) and controller-talk. All three are needed to make things work |:)\

Frank
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 11:11:54 AM by Frank N. O. »
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Offline PiperGirl

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The Instructors here at our school do use it, esp. with beginning students (or pilots that need a refreshing. Since we aren't at a towered airport, students are checked pretty thoroughly before their first flight to a towered airport (although, I'm sure that some of our local controllers would swear otherwise ;D sometimes)
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Offline Mike

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It's a little though for helicopters to fit in this format I am sure.
Since we always land in "non-movement areas" and sometimes on pads that aren't even part of the airport property, parking lots, and so on....
I always try to be inventive to request my special needs and still sound like it's part of protocol.
 ;)


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Offline Baradium

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I've also been amazed at what people can get by without knowing.   Not only Commercial pilots, I've seen people with ATPs who didn't know what some fairly normal phrases meant.

As an additional source, the pilot/controller glossary is also included in the binder for Jepp charts.
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Offline TheSoccerMom

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Thanks for all the replies, and information.   ::bow::

I was wondering...  after running into a new (2006 vintage) commercial pilot who used more non-standard radio phraseology than I would have even thought possible!  It was AMAZING.  And NOT in a good way.    ::complaining:

 8)

 
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Offline YawningMan

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I'll keep this in mind, as I intend to be a 2008 vintage pilot. I'm gonna hate myself for going into debt, but I'm sick of saying, "Some day I'll be a pilot."

airtac

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I'll keep this in mind, as I intend to be a 2008 vintage pilot. I'm gonna hate myself for going into debt, but I'm sick of saying, "Some day I'll be a pilot."

RIGHT ON---GO GET'EM |:)\

Offline FlyboyGil

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I'll keep this in mind, as I intend to be a 2008 vintage pilot. I'm gonna hate myself for going into debt, but I'm sick of saying, "Some day I'll be a pilot."

THAT'S RIGHT DOG!!!! You won't regret that debt you get into. Getting into debt when I started flying, was worth it!!!! I don't regret it at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got that piece of paper which says I can fly planes!!!!!!!!!! And when you do get that paper (or plastic) it'll be beer dousing and strippers!!!!!1 ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking::
IF YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING NICE, YOU'RE PROBABLY AT THE ICE CAPADES

Offline leiafee

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UKside we have a tome known as CAP413 to learn the r/t from. 

And a written exam.

And a practical exam with a "Pretend" radio and an imaginary route through imaginary airspace and your examiner pretending to be assorted imaginary controllers.