Helicopter Crash

[undatc]

Any ideas what happened here?  Looks like a pretty intense ride.  Looks like they walked away from it too, amazing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MSUgp7Cm1N0

[G-man]

Any ideas what happened here?  Looks like a pretty intense ride.  Looks like they walked away from it too, amazing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MSUgp7Cm1N0

Hydraulics failure---pilot screwed up big time, he should not have been flying the aircraft, (wont get into it),widely reported a few years ago and discussed ad-nauseum at our annual A-star refresher training last year. Waste of a good aircraft for no reason. They survived but I don't think they "walked" away.

[PiperGirl]

I remember that one  being reported. Wached it on the news and stuff. As normal, the media made a pretty big to-do about it. Poor Aircraft...

[Baradium]

Any ideas what happened here?  Looks like a pretty intense ride.  Looks like they walked away from it too, amazing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MSUgp7Cm1N0

Hydraulics failure---pilot screwed up big time, he should not have been flying the aircraft, (wont get into it),widely reported a few years ago and discussed ad-nauseum at our annual A-star refresher training last year. Waste of a good aircraft for no reason. They survived but I don't think they "walked" away.

So you're going to say just enough to picque our curiosity about it? 

[Mike]

there are a few theories about this one and nobody seems to admit to the real story...

As far as I am aware it went like this:
There were two pilots flying that day, one was checking out the other on his new job.
They had a hydraulics failure which makes the horn go off.
It's the same horn that also will go off if you get low rotor rpm from an engine failure.
So, somebody entered autorotation thinking the engine quit. (that's the first dive you see)
Then they either started arguing or figured out the engine is still working and tried flying away (helicopter pulls out of first dive)
By then the hydarulic accumulators have already been bled off (this would take too long to explain, but when the hydraulics fail, the ship has accumulators to give you time
to enter the proper speed and configeration for you hyd-off procedure)
Then there seems more confusion on why they're not being able to steer the ship (hyd. off flying is tricky in the AStar and there are things you must not do whcih they did)
and
KABOOM!

They all *crawled* away from this one because you see the aircraft initially hit skids first. The AStar is a very sturdy aircraft when it falls straight down on it's skids.
You also see, that it's not the best aircraft when it flips over since the top of tha cabin is only fiberglass and all the structure is in the bottom. (hence it falls apart when it does the flip) but then it falls on it's skids again.
Either way, they were REALLY lucky.

I kind of hate to see those videos.... although I always show them to my students....

[TheSoccerMom]

Thanks for the summary, Mike!  It's helpful to those of us who don't know the details about the machine....  thank you!    

[Baradium]

Would they have been ok if they'd remained in the autorotation?

[Mike]

Would they have been ok if they'd remained in the autorotation?

Good question!

But hard to answer...
Would depend on how good of a spot they picked out for their flare and touchdown . . . .
(street? powerlines? car traffic? trees?)

[Baradium]

Would they have been ok if they'd remained in the autorotation?

Good question!

But hard to answer...
Would depend on how good of a spot they picked out for their flare and touchdown . . . .
(street? powerlines? car traffic? trees?)

What I mean is from a controllability standpoint regarding the hydraulics.

[G-man]

What I mean is from a controllability standpoint regarding the hydraulics.

I would probably say not. Only because I doubt they would have been able to control the changing forces in a flare. What they were trying to do was to get the aircraft back to about 60kts. Then they could have flown to an airport and tried to land on a runway by running it on--dare I say it like a "plank driver". Pretty much the damage was done once they entered the auto and let the accumalators bleed off.

[Mike]

What makes it so tough, to add to G-Mans comment, is that the accumulators don't bleed off evenly.
In the proper hydraulic procedure you yank the aircraft into a 60mph stright and level flight while the accumulators are still working, and then turn off the hydraulics with the main hyd. switch once you get there which dumps all the remaining hyd. pressure at the same time.

If you think you're in an auto and don't shut the hydraulics off properly, you'll bleed them off individually and might have hyd. in one servo but not the other. And you will not be able to move the cyclic smoothly in either direction then. (you might just be able to move it in one direction with hyd power and the other you'll need full "Hyd. off muscle" which makes it impossible to control the aircraft.... they need to be all working or all off)

I had an FAA guy simulate a hyd. failure (there is a test switch you can push in flight as well) right when I came off a pinnacle and since I was looking outside I entered the auto first. Then I looked inside the cockpit and saw the engine was still working so I finished with the hydraulics off procedure and flew out of the auto at 60mph. See how that goes? It can be done if you know what's going on....

[G-man]

Another thing too.. There are two types of Astar pilot: Those who have had a real hydraulic failure.. And those who WILL have a hydraulic failure--its not a question of IF but WHEN. I've had two, and they are no big deal, ASSUMING you have trained for it and do NOT panic. From what I remember of this crash, the pilot had not received an "appropriate" amount of training for the Astar.

One of mine I blew off for a few seconds..that same horn can also signal a high RPM. The B2 Astar I flew in Hawaii would often give you the "horn" when doing a high speed quick stop, (it needed adjusting a little). I was in a hover 500 ft over a beach and got the horn-I told my pax not to worry--it was just the rpm.. then I looked inside and the fun began.

Like both Mike and I have said--emergencies are no big deal if you follow the procedure and don't panic.

[Baradium]

Thanks guys, I have a much better idea of what happened now.

Interestingly enough (for me anyway, maybe not for anyone else here), I've experienced unequal hydraulic assist before, although with a tractor.  Massey Furgeson 235 with ram assist power steering (a unidirectional ram on each side).  On this particular tractor, one of the rams was blown out and didn't work at all.  It's fun enough trying to steer a slow moving vehicle that wants to be easy to control in one direction, I can't imagine doing that with a helicopter.  I guess the video demonstrates what happens when you try?


Side note:  there was an Astar flying around today with a sling load that looked a whole lot like a big rocket (longer than the helicopter).  Slung so it was horizontal (like it was flying under the helicopter).   It kept on flying down the runway at Fairbanks, although I don't know if that's all it did today.  Someone told me they heard it was some fancy ground penetrating radar gadget for oil exploration.

[Mike]

Side note:  there was an Astar flying around today with a sling load that looked a whole lot like a big rocket (longer than the helicopter).  Slung so it was horizontal (like it was flying under the helicopter).   It kept on flying down the runway at Fairbanks, although I don't know if that's all it did today.  Someone told me they heard it was some fancy ground penetrating radar gadget for oil exploration.

you could be right. those things kind of look like that. there are all kinds of seismic missions out there, I am not sure if it's all oil, but since it's Alaska you're talking about . . . . might be a good guess.