Author Topic: Beer Trivia  (Read 20570 times)

Offline Rooster Cruiser

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Re: Beer Trivia
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2007, 08:46:56 PM »
Dana Rohrabacker is a brownie hound from the Los Angeles area who's looking to get his name in the headlines.

I remember him from 20 years ago when he was in city government in (I believe) Torrance CA.  The man hasn't changed his tactics at all.

If you check his website, you will see that his district is in Los Angeles and Orange counties along the coast and nowhere near any of the burn areas.  He is simply shooting off his mouth about something he has no knowledge of.  He would do well to ask a few questions before he goes to the press.  The old phrase comes to mind, "Engage Brain before Starting Mouth."   ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo::
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Offline G-man

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Re: Beer Trivia
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2007, 05:48:52 AM »
K, this is for all you fire pilots, what is your reaction to this article from AvWeb?

Fingerpointing Starts Over Firefighting Helicopter Delays

 San Diego politicians say foot-dragging by state officials kept 24 firefighting helicopters on the ground for a full day last week, critically hampering firefighting efforts in the early stages as the blazes gathered strength. The helicopters, operated by the military, were grounded because a state regulation requires that all firefighting choppers have a "fire spotter" on board and there weren't enough available. By the time the helicopters were allowed to take off it was too windy for them to fly. On Wednesday the state waived the regulation but now the heat is on state officials to explain the delay in doing so.

"When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger," Dana Rohrabacher, a Republican congressman from California, told the London Daily Telegraph. Calif. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Saturday the state will review its policies. "There are things that we could improve on and I think this is what we are going to do because a disaster like this, you know, really, in the end is a good vehicle, a motivator for everyone to come together," he told a news conference. Two Air National Guard C-130s also sat idle because they haven't yet been retrofitted with fire-retardant tanks.

The military are good at what they are trained to do----military stuff, NOT fighting fire. I was working Helco, (basically flying a person who controls the firefighting efforts from the air---just like airtac does---but we control primarily all the helicopters), with the military who were "grounded". During the morning briefing, they freely admitted that most of them had NEVER been near a fire, let alone fly on one.. Most of them had less than 1,000 hours--professional firefighting pilots are required to have a MINIMUM of 1500 hours to get carded, and most companies require more--the company I fly for had a 5,000 hour minimum and the lowest time pilot in the company has over 10,000 hours... The military guys had no clue about black line, head, heel, flank crowning--all normal terms we use. They needed to be "hand held" and follow a "regualar" pilot, even then, we were MORE effective without them. Dont get me wrong--they were great, and still are during the "less critical" phases and mop-up. I am sure I would get in their way if ever they need "fire fighting" pilots to go fight the war in Afganistan.

During the height of the battle, they would have got in the way, (too slow at dipping), and would have been detramental to the fire fighting effort, and would have been a safety hazard by not knowing simple things like the difference between "head" and "heel". During the critical phase of fighting a fire is NOT the time to have in-experienced pilots who need to be hand held flying around too low and "fanning" the fire.

Another way to look at is this---You need brain surgery, there are lots of "heart surgeons and physiciatrists around...would you let them perform the surgery????
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Offline Mike

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Re: Beer Trivia
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2007, 06:10:02 AM »
Well said G-man!

There are a few things the agencies could approve on when it comes to being prepared and when it comes to politics.
But fact is, you can't just have 24 helicopter from possibly 20 different agencies and contractors show up and go ride them into the flames without some kind of coordination, no matter how efficient or not-efficient it shall be. It won't work.
And it turns out (again, after reading the posted article) that you can't have them just sit around either....
(I don't know what a "fire-spotter" is but I guess they are talking about helicopter managers.)

What grinds my gears a little on this fire is that this is not "the worst devastation San Diego has ever seen" as the media claims. In 2003 they burned waaaaay more houses and acres than this year. And people did not learn their lesson ! ! !
When I fly over this mess I always see the same pattern: 80% of the houses got burned because they had no "defensable space" around them.
If you live in a fire-proned area, you need to clear out the brush around your house or there is no guarantee it will stand up against a fire storm.
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Offline PiperGirl

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Re: Beer Trivia
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2007, 12:33:17 PM »
Thanks for the responses. It's so annoying when politicians just run their mouths with out having an accurate idea about what they are talking about. Then the media gets a hold of it and then it just goes more down hill. Glad I can get the real picture here ;)

Some areas seem to have a track record of not being the best places to live, but people still love living there. I guess the benefits always out weigh the side effects (until the natural disaters happen, then it's the governments fault... ::loony::)
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Offline Fabo

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Re: Beer Trivia
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2007, 05:30:43 PM »
Then the media gets a hold of it and then it just goes more down hill.

Dont you even talk about the media!

God-damn people do make a terror landing on wrong runway hitting lightpoles passengers almost dying etc.  ::knockedout:: >:( >:( >:( ::rambo::

from just simple hitting lightpole by wing on slow taxi shen parking (errr... we have new apron in here).....

Not any better than comments on the internet from i-know-all type of people.

Back to printed press, only ONE newspaper coming to my hand today have really written what happened. Most maked it that terror of plane stuff.

PS: Sorry for offtop, had to let it out and this place seems understanding :)
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Re: Beer Trivia
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2007, 11:54:51 PM »
Well put Gordy and Mike both, |:)\

I gave a little talk recently to a group of wealthy home owners, all of whom live in urban interface areas, about fire safety.  When you say defensible space to these people, they think in terms of 20 feet---they acted like they didn't believe me when I talked about 100 plus foot flame lengths and the pictures I have don't really show scale very well.   They can't grasp the concept that it's not "if' but rather "when" the fire comes, how well are they prepared?

The politics will not go away, the media will continue to print misinformed speculation from moronic hacks, and people will continue to build houses in fire-prone areas (proving that wealthy and smart are not necessarily synonymous)---Egads, I'm happy to be retiring---Although the frustration level will still be there when I hear grossly exaggerated stories about grounded aircraft, ineffective fire fighting techniques, the need for more resources, (and airplanes flying backwards "all the time" ! ;)  HA!)

« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 11:56:59 PM by airtac »