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Author Topic: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....  (Read 6006 times)

Offline Baradium

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Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« on: October 05, 2007, 07:15:04 AM »
Quote

IDENTIFICATION
  Regis#: 3184T        Make/Model: R44       Description: R-44 Astro
  Date: 09/22/2007     Time: 2153

  Event Type: Accident   Highest Injury: None     Mid Air: N    Missing: N
  Damage: Substantial

LOCATION
  City: NASHVILLE   State: TN   Country: US

DESCRIPTION
  N3184T, A ROBINSON R44 ROTORCRAFT SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE DURING
  PREFLIGHT, NASHVILLE, TN

How do you do that?

Quote
IDENTIFICATION
  Regis#: CFTPA        Make/Model: C340      Description: CESSNA 340 TWIN
  Date: 09/20/2007     Time: 2030

  Event Type: Accident   Highest Injury: None     Mid Air: N    Missing: N
  Damage: Substantial

LOCATION
  City: SONOMA   State: CA   Country: US

DESCRIPTION
  AIRCRAFT WAS RECEIVING ADVISORIES FROM OAKLAND CENTER, AND REPORTED DVO
  (GNOSS FIELD AIRPORT) IN SIGHT, BUT LANDED 7NM NE AT 0Q3 (SONOMA VALLEY
  AIRPORT) AND RAN OFF THE END OF THE RUNWAY. SONOMA, CA

Oops...
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Offline undatc

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 06:42:37 PM »
Kinda interesting you posted those.  Two days ago, Oct. 3rd, we had a student pilot, first solo involved in an accident.

Was his 3rd touch and go in the pattern on 17R, the controller told him, "if able turn left Alpha 2."  A2 is about 700 feet down the runway.  The student landed tried to make the taxi way, over shot to the outside of it, clipped the left wing on the taxiway sign, spun the plane around in the grass.

The main wing structure is damaged, therefore its an accident.  Kinda sad the kid doesn't even have his license yet, and already has an accident on his record.
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Offline Baradium

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 07:48:32 PM »
Quote from: undatc on October 05, 2007, 06:42:37 PM
Kinda interesting you posted those.  Two days ago, Oct. 3rd, we had a student pilot, first solo involved in an accident.

Was his 3rd touch and go in the pattern on 17R, the controller told him, "if able turn left Alpha 2."  A2 is about 700 feet down the runway.  The student landed tried to make the taxi way, over shot to the outside of it, clipped the left wing on the taxiway sign, spun the plane around in the grass.

The main wing structure is damaged, therefore its an accident.  Kinda sad the kid doesn't even have his license yet, and already has an accident on his record.

I saw that accident in the database and thought about asking if you knew what happened... (report didn't really say anything other than that there was an accident with an aircraft and it had a UND tail number).


Controller really didn't need to be asking that of a student pilot, but when it comes down to it, it was the students' job to not try the turn if he couldn't make it.   

You can bet that in the future he'll slow down before trying any turns.  A month or so ago we had a higher time pilot (probobly 6,000 hours) total a navajo trying to make a taxiway going too fast.
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"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2007, 09:49:48 PM »
May I ask, what is normal taxi-speed for smaller planes?

Frank
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Offline Rooster Cruiser

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2007, 10:22:01 PM »
It is recommended that you taxi no faster than a fast-walk in a light aircraft.  How people interpret that varies widely.
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Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2007, 10:30:22 PM »
That would be no more than 5 kph for me (3.1 mph or 2.7 kts).

Frank
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Offline Baradium

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 11:07:46 PM »
Quote from: Frank N. O. on October 05, 2007, 10:30:22 PM
That would be no more than 5 kph for me (3.1 mph or 2.7 kts).

Frank

It doesn't mean neccessarily *your* fast walk.  A normal fast walking speed.


IE, not 30 mph.

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"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
  -Johnny Cash "I won't back Down"

Offline undatc

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2007, 11:19:56 PM »
Quote from: Baradium on October 05, 2007, 07:48:32 PM

I saw that accident in the database and thought about asking if you knew what happened... (report didn't really say anything other than that there was an accident with an aircraft and it had a UND tail number).


Controller really didn't need to be asking that of a student pilot, but when it comes down to it, it was the students' job to not try the turn if he couldn't make it.   

You can bet that in the future he'll slow down before trying any turns.  A month or so ago we had a higher time pilot (probobly 6,000 hours) total a navajo trying to make a taxiway going too fast.

I am in avit 208 currently, and we were discussing this.  The controller had just checked out on local control (so just out of being a developmental it seems).  Didn't make a good decision in asking him if able to turn there.  I've heard through the grape vine (several friends are CFI's here) that the students previous full stop landings that day were coming up just short of our cross runway ( 8-26) which is probably about double the length down the runway (so about 1400'.)  Why the controller asked him to turn there?  I have no idea.  I remember when I was flying, there was no way I coulda ever made A2.

At UND our Safety Policies and Procedures state, "an aircraft must be taxied at a speed so that it may be stopped promptly."  When I asked around to my CFI buddies what that meant, most said the standard is within 15 feet.  I'm working on getting some photos of the crash too, should be up later tonight.
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Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2007, 12:03:23 AM »
I see people (in piston a/c) TAXI by at speeds that make me almost WISH their brakes would fail...  just so they'd realize how stupid that is!   ::banghead::

Brakes DO fail...  I've had it happen in trainers...  and it's a sick feeling to think, as your feet flop to the floor, that you're going to just chop up those nice folks standing over there by their airplane.   ::complaining:

I can tell you what our boss says....  "If I EVER see any of my airplanes taxiing faster than a SLOW walk, you're done."  And he does mean SLOW.

And....  He does mean DONE.

 :-[
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Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2007, 10:20:19 AM »
Are there still controllers that look out of the window at the airplanes so they could see it wasn't possible and therefore not ask for it? I'm not sure how much controllers need to know about various aircraft's performance levels.

Is it as likely to get tailgated while taxiing as it is when driving in heavy road-traffic? If I thought driving a 4.5meter sedan and having a van 2 meters behind then taxiing with a big single-engine prop plane like a Caravan or PC12 must be horriffic! One thing is a bump with a bumper but what about a slicing prop!  ::unbelieveable::

Although this here doesn't look that funny either, speaking of taxi-speeds: http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_Bell_407-Airline_Untitled_Aviation_Video-8184.html

Frank
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Offline undatc

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2007, 03:39:45 PM »
Here are the pictures.





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Offline TheSoccerMom

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2007, 09:01:09 PM »
Aw, that is too bad.  But, with luck he will keep flying and add that to his pile of "Learning".   |:)\
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airtac

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2007, 03:36:30 AM »
Now that's just FUBAR !!!!
Maybe he can get my old job at KFC upon graduation...............
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Offline PiperGirl

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Re: Sometimes you know it's time to go back to bed....
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 06:33:23 PM »
Job security for some airframe mechanic...
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