Roost Air Lounge => Aviation related topics => Topic started by: TheSoccerMom on April 01, 2007, 05:56:46 PM
Title: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 01, 2007, 05:56:46 PM
I happened to catch a bit of this on the radio news, so looked online for the story. It appears that all was NOT well in the cockpit of the B747 which ran off the runway earlier this month in Indonesia.
It's really sad that the outcome from something so unprofessional, can be so enormous and tragic.
I know here, the school puts a lot on CRM and getting along and working as a team.
Also, if anyone says the words, GO AROUND, you go around, no matter the reason. Superman/God mentality, you're always right, and invincible.
Sounds like the f/o was demanding a go around because the captain messed up the airspeeds and was way too fast. From what I've read so far it sounds like the f/o was going by procedure and captain wasn't, but what do you want to bet they'll both be demonized?
Problems with crews aren't always because of a new f/o... sometimes it's a high time captain that doesn't want to imagine that he could be wrong and a "lowly" F/O could catch something or see something wrong.
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: gibbo_335 on April 01, 2007, 10:42:20 PM
I happened to catch a bit of this on the radio news, so looked online for the story. It appears that all was NOT well in the cockpit of the B747 which ran off the runway earlier this month in Indonesia.
It's really sad that the outcome from something so unprofessional, can be so enormous and tragic.
OK don't want to get overly picky here, this over run really shook the Australian public up quite badly, BUT "The Australian" (supposedly THE most influential paper we have over here ::rofl:: my father in-law calls it the Australian Comic book! ) again has the details all stuffed up, the plane in question was actually a 737-400 and this quote "rather the co-pilot did not put them down properly because the plane was going too fast. " In the latest stuff this morning in the Courier Mail (brisneyland paper) said it was the Captian and co-pilot was saying go-around!!! ::complaining: WHO DO YOU BELIEVE!!!!!
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 01, 2007, 11:52:35 PM
I believe YOU, Gibbo!
I apologize for passing on this earlier garbage -- I read only two articles and they both said the same thing, and I posted it.. SORRY. :(
I just read a few more articles and you are very right -- it was a 737 and there does seem to be some confusion about who-did-what-when-why. But, it does appear they landed with Flaps at 5 degrees (not the landing setting), and they were, indeed, busy in an engrossing argument. Always an intelligent choice when you are responsible for the lives of every single unsuspecting person onboard.
One passenge who survived, a 23-year-old RAAF member, said just the thought of getting on another airplane was pretty hideous. And, he was going to go buy a lottery ticket. Not a bad idea.
Many years ago, an airliner crashed in Mexico City on a closed runway... it was because the pilots hated each other so much that the one who KNEW it was closed (due to construction), wanted to see how long it would take for his enemy, the OTHER pilot, to figure it out. So, being the supremely professional people that they were, they ended up crashing into the heavy equipment and killed a bunch of people.
I can't recall the details, but that was always the crowning example of stupidity and hubris taken to the extreme, that we would hear about in every CRM class. And we wonder why people hate flying!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!?!?!!?!!?!
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: gibbo_335 on April 02, 2007, 12:09:46 AM
I apologize for passing on this earlier garbage -- I read only two articles and they both said the same thing, and I posted it.. SORRY. :(
Hey Mom, No need to apologize..i was just saying that i think we all get the rough end of BAD media reporting....I saw a news report on TV here about 12 months ago and they report that "the single engined Piper suffered engine failure...yarddie yarrda.." and the images on the screen were...oh dear a 172SP (as written on the tail fin they where focusing on) it's small details I think that these guys miss in ACURATELY reporting to the General public that causes some of the hysteria that we see. I think the line in MIB is "A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." miss report ESPECIALLY about aviation causes that sort of reaction.....OOOO 747's and their pilots.....you can just here it mow ::) (any why my view on the media only....albeit humble)
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 02, 2007, 12:24:20 AM
Oh, no -- you are right ON. I just hate when I believe the first thing (or ten) that I read -- not a good thing!! ::silly::
Your examples of aviation being misrepresented are all too common. Even television shows will have the wrong engine sounds paired with the video.. bizarre things we all know can't be true... it's really pretty nuts!!! Maybe because the accurate truth would be too boring?!?!?!?
It's best to keep a skeptical eye!!! By the way, I like your Dad's name idea -- "The Comic Book" -- funny!
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: gibbo_335 on April 02, 2007, 12:30:17 AM
Even television shows will have the wrong engine sounds paired with the video.. bizarre things we all know can't be true... it's really pretty nuts!!! Maybe because the accurate truth would be too boring?!?!?!?
It's best to keep a skeptical eye!!! By the way, I like your Dad's name idea -- "The Comic Book" -- funny!
Like a 152 with a whopping big radial noise ::rofl:: ::rofl:: ::rofl:: i think it was in an episode re-run of Skippy i watched on cable
My dad's sense of humour is fairly dry, that is one of his better ones :D
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 02, 2007, 12:59:32 AM
::wave::
We had a TV camera crew fly along with us once long ago ('in a place far, far away') -- they were doing a "documentary" on fires, for French public TV. They asked a million questions, got tons of great shots, and disappeared.
We finally got the finished video, and excitedly loaded it up and gathered 'round to watch. It was CRAZY! The turbine DC-3 had a RADIAL engine sound, the fire lookout was looking out her window BACKWARD, it went on and on. Once we got over the initial shock, it was pretty funny.... I still drag it out every now and then just for the entertainment value. :D
But, it seems wrong that people would see that, and believe what they saw. :-\
We had another TV crew hanging around last summer -- who knows what came of THAT?!?! They are no longer allowed to fly along -- like everything else in this ridiculous modern world, the gov't is scared of the "liability". Never mind that you can kill yourself in your own bathtub.... ::loony::
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: Baradium on April 02, 2007, 01:13:34 AM
Lawyers are destroying this world one lawsuit at a time. :(
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: gibbo_335 on April 02, 2007, 01:35:18 AM
Here here Baradium.... whole heartedly agree
Quote
But, it seems wrong that people would see that, and believe what they saw
Mom, i hear EXACTLY what you are saying
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: tundra_flier on April 05, 2007, 03:03:51 AM
Oh, no -- you are right ON. I just hate when I believe the first thing (or ten) that I read -- not a good thing!! ::silly::
Your examples of aviation being misrepresented are all too common. Even television shows will have the wrong engine sounds paired with the video.. bizarre things we all know can't be true... it's really pretty nuts!!! Maybe because the accurate truth would be too boring?!?!?!?
It's best to keep a skeptical eye!!! By the way, I like your Dad's name idea -- "The Comic Book" -- funny!
I love the way the turbine porter sputters as it runs out of gas in "Air America" ::rofl:: Or the awsome V-8 rumble from Batman's jet car in the animated series.
And how many times have we heard news reports about an aircraft's engine stalling? ::)
Phil
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: leiafee on April 10, 2007, 09:58:29 PM
My theory is that most of the newspaper reports of aircraft accidents are written using this...
http://radans.net/jens/planestory.html
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: gibbo_335 on April 10, 2007, 10:18:30 PM
Yeap that sounds like The Australian !! ::rofl::
Here's mine (with a slight embelishment ;) )
Flight from Hell
American passengers told of their terrible dreadful fear aboard a Brisbane bound Jetstar flight which was told in no uncertain terms to return to Sydney yesterday due to running out of Everybody Loves Raymond episodes.
Some passengers were devastated that the 309 passengers were told few details of the tragedy.
They said the plane 'Turned on it's side and flopped like a fish out of water' before turning around.
As a precaution, fire trucks were on standby when the Antonov A360 landed.
Passenger Nanna Shep last night was still recovering from the ordeal.
'The hostess shoved me out of the plane, because the scheudled episode I hadn't seen before. I landed right on the concrete', the passenger said. Photo below of the Antonov involved.
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 11, 2007, 01:06:30 AM
Man... you are GOOD!!! You need to be an "aviation consultant".... just remember all of us poor friends when you get the fat paycheck!!! ::wave::
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: gibbo_335 on April 11, 2007, 01:10:19 AM
:-[ AW shucks 'Mom!!!, thank you!!! But i did learn from the best in the business...THE AUSTRALIAN ::cowboy:: ::rofl:: HA HA
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 12, 2007, 06:17:47 AM
The BBC says tonight that the aircraft was moving at "almost double" the landing speed. :-\
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: gibbo_335 on April 12, 2007, 06:26:33 AM
If i brought the C172 in at almost double the landing speed i'd be at uuuuummmmmm ::thinking:: Cruise!!!!! WOT THA ::unbelieveable::
Title: Re: Indonesia Crash Caused by "Absent-mindedness"
Post by: Baradium on April 12, 2007, 06:55:14 PM
