Roost Air Lounge => The Classroom => Topic started by: cotejy on January 17, 2007, 04:07:23 PM
Title: check gear down
Post by: cotejy on January 17, 2007, 04:07:23 PM
Hello all,
I was wondering about some post on this forum talking about ATC asking for a "check gear down" when an airplane is final. I flown a little (about 10 hours) on a Piper Aztec and the ATC never asked me this question. Is this a standard procedure in the US (I'm flying in Canada)?
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: undatc on January 17, 2007, 07:28:36 PM
You most likely heard ATC talking to a military jet of some kind. I cant find the exact chapter, though I know its in Chapter 3 somewhere of the 7110, but for all military jets/props we have to on initial call up to tower must give give them permission to enter our airspace as well as, "SAMP 1235 check wheels down."
Thats it. If you request us to check, most tower guys when you're on your down wind will, but we don't have to.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: cotejy on January 17, 2007, 07:54:56 PM
OHHH, I got it the other way. I read this from other topics and taught the tower was asking the pilot to check if thier gears were down. ::banghead:: ::knockedout::
I think I havent flown for too long and my pedestrian cells are taking control of my brain.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 17, 2007, 08:03:07 PM
The end of the runway in Riverside, CA has "WHEELS" spelled out in 6' white letters on the ground. I asked the ground controller if it helped that much, and he said he wasn't sure, but that it had been a while since the last gear up landing.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: undatc on January 17, 2007, 09:03:17 PM
Well, its two fold. On one hand, we are reminding them to re check that their gear is down and locked, and at the same time if we're able, we are supposed to also visually check.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: chuckar101 on January 18, 2007, 01:16:52 AM
What runway in Riverside is that sign. I've flown in there a couple of time lately and didn't see it. Have to check it out next time I fly in.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 18, 2007, 01:34:08 AM
It has been many YEARS ago, but in Canada they told us Check gear down as part of the clearance to land.
Military controllers (U.S.) also told us that (on our descent) when we were transiting the restricted area to go into an uncontrolled, civilain airport nearby for landing.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: undatc on January 18, 2007, 02:07:43 AM
It has been many YEARS ago, but in Canada they told us Check gear down as part of the clearance to land.
Military controllers (U.S.) also told us that (on our descent) when we were transiting the restricted area to go into an uncontrolled, civilain airport nearby for landing.
Yea military controllers are a little weird. For us, there are portions of the 7110 that only apply to when we are working with military airplanes of certain branches. However if youre a military controller, you have to apply all procedures to everyone. IE for us we only apply navy procedures for navy airplanes, but an Air Force controller talking to a Delta for instance has to apply navy, air force, marine etc to it. They have a lot of weird rules.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 18, 2007, 03:28:50 AM
We found they have a good sense of humor, too. I wrote this a few nights back, but my computer coughed and the post apparently went somewhere else.
While doing an ocean survey off southern California, we had to get clearance from the military to extend into their area. It had been a long day and the copilot was flying (on surveys, there are two pilots, unlike the fire stuff). We were to check in with Beaver Control, and since he was flying, I had the radios.
So, mental giant that I am, I called in to "Badger Control, blah blah blah..." Well, the copilot (whom I barely knew) was HORRIFIED that I had screwed up. He sputtered, "But you just called them the wrong name!" So, I keyed the mike again and said "Hey, this is So-and-so again, if I just called you the wrong animal, I'm sorry." The controller just pleasantly answered, "Oh, no problem" but the copilot was clearly mortified at this casual lack of professionalism. He rolled his eyes at me and I am sure he would have said something rude, if he had only known me better. :D
We flew and flew.. miles and miles.. back and forth. At the end of our lines, we called the controllers to let them know we were coming up on a course reversal. This went on for hours... and hours.. or, was it weeks? ::)
Anyway, we were finally done, and it was time to exit their airspace. The copilot had the controls once again, and we were headed to shore. I told him (trying to not be a complete BONEHEAD), that I was going to thank these guys, for all their help. They had made our work much easier, after all. I keyed the mike and, as politely as I could, told them our intentions, and that we surely (there's that darned Shirley again!) appreciated their assistance on the mapping.
There was a slight pause, then a loud, happy voice answered "Roger, Twin Otter So-and-so, SQUIRREL Control, no problem at all! Good day!"
We ALL got a good laugh out of that, and the copilot was especially pleased that they GOT ME. There was even a long discussion after landing of the various identifying characteristics of short, four-legged furry mammals.... all for my benefit, of course.
::rofl:: ::rofl:: ::rofl::
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: undatc on January 18, 2007, 05:32:20 PM
So today as im looking for our merging target procedures in the 7110, I found the wheels down check section, 2-1-24 reads:
2-1-24. WHEELS DOWN CHECK
USA/USAF/USN
Remind aircraft to check wheels down on each approach unless the pilot has previously reported wheels down for that approach.
NOTE- The intent is solely to remind the pilot to lower the wheels, not to place responsibility on the controller.
a. Tower shall issue the wheels down check at an appropriate place in the pattern.
PHRASEOLOGY- CHECK WHEELS DOWN.
b. Approach/arrival control, GCA shall issue the wheels down check as follows:
1. To aircraft conducting ASR, PAR, or radar monitored approaches, before the aircraft starts descent on final approach.
2. To aircraft conducting instrument approaches and remaining on the radar facility's frequency, before the aircraft passes the outer marker/final approach fix.
PHRASEOLOGY- WHEELS SHOULD BE DOWN.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Nottoohinortoofast on January 18, 2007, 08:08:21 PM
The Swiss Air Force use the same procedure, but as pilots don't like being bossed around by controllers. The "check wheels down" is avoided by calling something like " Hornet 23 Final 3 greens " at first radio contact. (Just kidding about the being bossed around part...) ::bow::
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: happylanding on January 18, 2007, 08:28:08 PM
Hehehe, another Swiss here in the forum! welcome compatriot! |:)\where are you from precisely?
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: tundra_flier on January 19, 2007, 06:00:39 AM
I commercial pilot friend relayed this to me about 10 years ago. A Piper Arrow ran out of fuel and crashed after departing Galena and forgetting to raise it's gear. So the Galena tower (the airforce manned it most of the time back then) started letting every departing plane know if their gear was down. Since a large number of aircraft operating out of there are fixed gear the standard response became "confirmed, gear down and welded!".
Phil
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: undatc on January 19, 2007, 07:05:35 AM
I commercial pilot friend relayed this to me about 10 years ago. A Piper Arrow ran out of fuel and crashed after departing Galena and forgetting to raise it's gear. So the Galena tower (the airforce manned it most of the time back then) started letting every departing plane know if their gear was down. Since a large number of aircraft operating out of there are fixed gear the standard response became "confirmed, gear down and welded!".
Phil
Yea it was really dumb, they made us do a final check before landing, which consisted of, "boost pump on, mixture rich, props forward, gear down and locked". Only thing is were flying warriors here, no retractable gear, and no prop control. Always felt dumb when i took check rides and had to say that.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 19, 2007, 08:13:13 PM
UND doesn't trust students to think for themselves, so they force rote memorization on them.
KRAL was the airport at Riverside. I came in on 27.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: tundra_flier on January 21, 2007, 10:20:17 AM
Here's the version of GUMPS I use, taken from my instructor and Bob's instructors, keep in mind this is for a C-150
G = Gas, yup, it's ON, (only two positions, on and off, if you're doing a normal landing it's obviously been on) U = Undercarriage, OK, right main tire is still there, no branches or anything hanging off it, if I have a passenger I have them check the left side. M = Mixture, full rich P = Primer locked S = Seat belts tight.
Another slightly humorous version I've heard for the 150.
G = Gas, still got some. U = Undercarriage still there M = Mixture rich P = Prop, still turning. S = Seat belts on.
This is actually more involved than the factory landing checklist. It just calls out speed and flap settings.
Phil
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 22, 2007, 02:06:23 AM
Boy, even seeing "GUMPS" written down makes me think of the old saying, "There are those who have, and those who will....." [land gear up]......
Knock on wood!!! ;)
Phil, I love the line for the "P" --- "Prop, still turning" ---- always a nice sight!! ;D
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 22, 2007, 05:54:24 AM
Here's the version of GUMPS I use, taken from my instructor and Bob's instructors, keep in mind this is for a C-150
G = Gas, yup, it's ON, (only two positions, on and off, if you're doing a normal landing it's obviously been on) U = Undercarriage, OK, right main tire is still there, no branches or anything hanging off it, if I have a passenger I have them check the left side. M = Mixture, full rich P = Primer locked S = Seat belts tight.
Another slightly humorous version I've heard for the 150.
G = Gas, still got some. U = Undercarriage still there M = Mixture rich P = Prop, still turning. S = Seat belts on.
This is actually more involved than the factory landing checklist. It just calls out speed and flap settings.
Phil
Do you usually land with carb heat on, or no?
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: tundra_flier on January 22, 2007, 08:01:07 AM
Gulfstream I fly a 150 with an O-200 in the far north. Carb heat on is the norm. :D When the ambient temps get down in the single digits carb heat is necessary for proper fuel atomization. But yes, I ALWAYS apply carb heat before reducing power, and every 10 to 15 min during cruise, and as soon as I reach 1,000ft AGL after take off. Yes, I've had some very bad carb ice on take off. And after reviewing my factory checklist again, it does list carb heat too. It's such a frequent thing that I guess I don't even think much about it any more.
Phil
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: spacer on January 24, 2007, 12:53:13 AM
Oof. Struck home. Fortunately, it was on flightsim, but after flying around with 172s and the CH801, I started to have fun with the Aero Commander 500. In the sim, I LOVE that airplane! (I first got a gleam over it while watching Bob Hoover do cool stuff with it) Unfortunately, while flying an assignment for FSE (fseconomy.com) it didn't occur to me to hang the wheels to dry, and I thumped myself repeatedly on the head as my fuselage scraped a furrow in the dirt strip. Now there's a sticky note on my monitor: "WHEELS DOWN!!!" It seems to work, I've done pretty well with it, and I'm learning the finer points of operating with adjustable props, multi engines, and retracts.
I related a story some time ago about one of my airplanes being landed gear-up. I was found to be innocent of anything to do with the incident, as the pilot, a solo student working on his commercial rating, simply forgot after a long day of flying. Still put me through some antacids, though... and I'd just done a 500 hr inspection on the actuators.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 24, 2007, 10:30:11 PM
Oh gosh, I read your post rather quickly at first, and didn't catch the part about it being in the SIM. PHEW! You scared me there.
I asked a sim instructor once, when he had finished thoroughly humiliating me in the machine and asked "Is there anything you want to try?", if we could do a gear-up landing. This was a King Air 200 simulator and he said Sure, though I think I caught a flash of him rolling his eyes, and jotting a final "Moron" on his clipboard. ::)
I'll be honest, it actually made me jump! The noises they had programmed into the sim were so loud, and there was grinding metal, and zinging sparks flying "out the windshield", a horrifying bass hum of 12,000+ pounds of metal meeting macadam, and what seemed like 1,000 bright red annunciators on the warning panels. It scared the DAYLIGHTS out of me, and I have always been glad I asked for what I thought was just an entertaining little diversion.
Knock on wood.......... that's the only one so far...... ::sweat::
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: BrianGMFS on January 25, 2007, 06:23:46 PM
Quote
Fortunately, it was on flightsim, but after flying around with 172s and the CH801....
CH 801 huh? Glad to see someone flying my Flightsim creations ;D As for the 500 Shrike... Milton Shupe is the man when it comes to flight sim Aero Commanders.
Brian
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: fireflyr on January 26, 2007, 02:46:23 AM
Did you try taxying the 500sim with the gear up ??? Probably took LOTS of power ;)
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: spacer on February 05, 2007, 03:13:45 AM
Fortunately, it was on flightsim, but after flying around with 172s and the CH801....
CH 801 huh? Glad to see someone flying my Flightsim creations ;D As for the 500 Shrike... Milton Shupe is the man when it comes to flight sim Aero Commanders.
Brian
It's a trip, and I can fly some jobs in FSE (fseconomy.com) that some folks would rather do in helicopters. Muahahahaha. Unfortunately, I've placed an ad to sell my tail kit for the real airplane. With the new baby and all, it's going to gather dust for a long long time, so I'm going to have to find some sort of middle ground... perhaps a nice TriPacer...
I think my AC500 is the Schupe one (I'd have to go look... the package included Smuggler's Dream) and it's one of my all time favorite airplanes. It's also quite a good moneymaker in FSE.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Frank N. O. on April 06, 2007, 09:09:54 PM
This person could've needed a Gear Down Check, man that sounds unpleasent! http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_Cessna_182_Skylane_RG_II-Airline_Private_Aviation_Video-7951.html
Frank
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 06, 2007, 09:21:21 PM
It didn't allow the download, but that's okay -- I can feel bad without seeing it. What a drag! Knock on wood, knock on wood.... :-[
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Frank N. O. on April 06, 2007, 10:57:49 PM
Can't you see it imbedded or did you want it for your collection?
Frank
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 06, 2007, 11:11:24 PM
I'm not sure what those terms mean Frank -- I am technologically challenged. :D No biggie, it just said it wouldn't allow it and I gave up. I'll try again later.
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Frank N. O. on April 06, 2007, 11:44:21 PM
Ah sorry :( But in my opinion you're anything but challenged being a special-mission super-pilot |:)\
Imbedded means the video is shown on the page itself, using Windows Media Player, and by adding to the collection I just meant download it to your computer together with other videoclips of planes etc. like I have.
I see the download has been suspended because people have been uploading the videos to other sites without permission. That's the tough part, it's legal to download the video for yourself to watch but not to re-upload to other sites, but for technical reasons that eliminates the legal use, unless you know what to do which I do, although I only collect the nicer videos but if you want it for your own collection I can probably talk you thrue how to get it and as I understand the rules, legal and moral, then that should be ok since it's the re-uploading they don't like, not personal use.
Frank
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 07, 2007, 02:55:57 AM
Frank,
Thanks for the explanation!! I do get myself confused sometimes, thank goodness you folks here in the Coop have bailed me out more than once.
And BOY, I knew you had a rousing sense of humor, but -- super-pilot -- HA HA, I am sure you meant to type "Stupor-pilot"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::eek::
Aren't computers fun? Here I am writing to you and you are halfway around the world, er, Coop. Pretty awesome!!! ::wave::
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: ecophil on September 12, 2007, 10:29:31 AM
Hi,
Just my 2 cents about those wheels written at one end of 27 in KRAL. Just follow the link to google maps and you will be able to read it by yourself at no charge:
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: gibbo_335 on September 12, 2007, 07:51:19 PM
::thinking:: ::thinking:: Now ecophil, if they put "WHEELS" at the threshold of 27 to remind pilots......then why didn't they put it at the threshold to 09?? Interesting huh? ??? ;)
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: Franz on September 12, 2007, 08:36:58 PM
Maybe half of the pilots remember the gear and so it is not necessary to remind all ?? ;) ;) ;D
Title: Re: check gear down
Post by: gibbo_335 on September 13, 2007, 01:30:49 AM
