Roost Air Lounge => Aviation related topics => Topic started by: TheSoccerMom on January 16, 2007, 01:17:11 AM
Title: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 16, 2007, 01:17:11 AM
Anyone else see the headline today?
The "most dangerous jobs" in the U.S. were listed, and, once again, being a pilot was in the top three. Seems like over the years, it has swapped back and forth between logging and fishing for Spots #1 and #2, and they still reign as the most likely professions to get you killed.
A quick recap:
1. Fishing...... 118.4 fatalities per 100,000 workers
2. Logging...... 92.9 fatalities per 100,000 workers
Perhaps surprisingly, police officers had a fatality rate of only 18.2 per 100K, and firefighters only 11.5. I would have guessed they were riskier than some of the others above.
Soooooo........ Anyone going along to the Career Fair with me, to find a new JOB?? Hee. :o
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Frank N. O. on January 16, 2007, 01:30:04 AM
Let me guess Soccer, you want more excitment in your life so you're going to apply for a Bering Sea crab boat position right? ::thinking::
Phil
NAW, she would never leave her "kids"----- :-*
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 16, 2007, 06:11:22 AM
HA HA, oh you made me laugh OUT LOUD on that one, Phil!!!
HA! I'm sure I'd last about 30 seconds on a crab boat!!! ::silly::
And, well.... there is the question of the KIDS, like Jim said.
Did I tell you guys about the day when Mikey's relief pilot was in WMC, and we were all chatting (okay, BS'ing).... apparently he had heard the nickname "The Soccer Mom" a few times.... well, he was making polite conversation, and asked where I lived. I told him, and he just as pleasantly said, "So, how often do you get home?" I laughed rather loudly and cackled, "Oh jeez, hardly ever! I haven't really been home in months!"
Well, the look he gave me would have shriveled up Attila the Hun. It was a mixture of shock, disgust and pure contempt... his face went white and he STARED at me and said in a very COLD voice "Well, WHO is watching your KIDS?"
It seems he thought I had a pack of REAL kids, and was a REAL Soccer Mom, and here I was, off in the desert, making jokes about never going HOME. He could barely speak, even after I clarified that the "KIDS" were the guys he was looking at in the hangar there.
I'm not sure he ever forgave me. ::whistle::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Frank N. O. on January 16, 2007, 02:50:29 PM
::rofl:: ::rofl:: ::rofl:: that was a great one! But why should he forgive you? What did you do wrong, I didn't get that?
Frank
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: AirtransRecon on January 16, 2007, 02:50:57 PM
Quote
Miscellaneous Agricultural Workers
What exactly is a miscellaneous Ag Worker and how is he getting killed off so easily. This makes me thinkof a guy who's getting run down by the crop duster who's also working on his statistic.
Oh well, here's to choosing an exciting career at least. Can't imagine "office cooler rat" making the list.
KW
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 16, 2007, 08:16:38 PM
Well, Frank, that probably wasn't the best word I could have used. ???
What I meant was, even after the explanation, and a lot of laughter from the "kids", I still don't think he saw it as too humorous. Like maybe I really WAS an AWOL mother. :-\
You never know!! :D
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: happylanding on January 16, 2007, 09:59:33 PM
"So, how often do you get home?" I laughed rather loudly and cackled, "Oh jeez, hardly ever! I haven't really been home in months!"
Well, the look he gave me would have shriveled up Attila the Hun. It was a mixture of shock, disgust and pure contempt... his face went white and he STARED at me and said in a very COLD voice "Well, WHO is watching your KIDS?"
It seems he thought I had a pack of REAL kids, and was a REAL Soccer Mom, and here I was, off in the desert, making jokes about never going HOME. He could barely speak, even after I clarified that the "KIDS" were the guys he was looking at in the hangar there.
I'm not sure he ever forgave me. ::whistle::
Hehe! that's gorgeous! I imagine the face he did. I can picture it! ::rofl:: ::rofl:: ::rofl::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: tundra_flier on January 16, 2007, 10:02:44 PM
What exactly is a miscellaneous Ag Worker and how is he getting killed off so easily. This makes me thinkof a guy who's getting run down by the crop duster who's also working on his statistic.
Oh well, here's to choosing an exciting career at least. Can't imagine "office cooler rat" making the list.
KW
Ag work can be very dangerous. I remember riding out on the teeth of a drubie stacker as s teenager to help manuver the hay bales in while it cruised across field field at 30mph. For those not familiar with a Drubie, think of a light weight front end loader built on a pickup frame, but instead of a bucket on the front it has a comb made of poined 2x8's. Standard proceedure was for 2 of us to stand on the comb and help guide the bales in. One slip and you could kiss a foot goodby.
Farm and ranch workers are always getting hurt.
Phil
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: happylanding on January 16, 2007, 10:18:12 PM
Ag work can be very dangerous. I remember riding out on the teeth of a drubie stacker as s teenager to help manuver the hay bales in while it cruised across field field at 30mph. For those not familiar with a Drubie, think of a light weight front end loader built on a pickup frame, but instead of a bucket on the front it has a comb made of poined 2x8's. Standard proceedure was for 2 of us to stand on the comb and help guide the bales in. One slip and you could kiss a foot goodby.
Farm and ranch workers are always getting hurt.
Phil
Well, I presume I often have a more bucolic view of the country and your image gives, on the contrary, a real picture of life there! I adore the country, but I just spend my vacations there :) ! btw - if it can fall under "agricultural accidents" -, one year ago I had my face struck by the head of an horse, who was not williing to go out riding. Docs had to stick my mouth and lower face together again, since the hit cut my lower lip in half, with a cut that run along 2 cm of my face. the docs did a fantastic job and I probably was quite lucky since there is no big scar and had he hit on the nose or eyes, maybe I would not have had only a scar.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 16, 2007, 10:24:10 PM
Very true, about farm work being dangerous! When we were kids, it wasn't uncommon for classmates to get killed while working on the farm. Haying took its toll. Accidents around tractors and silos were a given. One year there were two kids my age who were killed during the summer "vacation", and that is a lot, when you figure there were maybe 20 kids in the entire grade. :(
I don't think the small farmers get the respect they should. |:)\
And Wow, Happy, glad that Mister Ed wasn't any wilder with you. ::sweat::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on January 18, 2007, 06:23:08 PM
Thanks for telling the story in here mom! It's a great one!!
Fishing HAS to be the most dangerous job hands down. I don't really trust the ocean even though I spend much time there.... Knowing lots of firefighters myself I think the most dangerous part about their job (as well as cops) is dealing with the medical calls, needles, deseases, and lots of really messed up people....
With the pilot thing I never know if they don't throw in all the private GA accidents as well. I find it hard to imagine that many professional guys getting killed a year.....
I just posted this in a seperate thread, but check out this job:
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 18, 2007, 08:28:47 PM
Fishing IS pretty amazing... those harrowing stories out of the cold northern waters are pretty intense. A friend of mine in Alaska works with a woman who has had three of her immediate family killed while working on fishing boats. Man!
I don't know the exact methods they use for these aviation statistics, either, but I know it has always been a highly-ranked job on this list. And the only reason I know that is from well-meaning family members who seem to think it's their duty to point it out to me! I guess they know I can't read...? :D
I'm with you 100% on the dangers of dealing with an unpredictable public... like you said, structural firefighters, EMS and police all face some pretty crazy situations these days. One of my sisters had wild stories from being an ER nurse -- especially with people who were high. One guy kept screaming about the "black helicopters" in the room that were "shooting at them". He was wildly out of control and was furious at her that she wasn't ducking under the tables to avoid the "gunfire". WOW.
Makes our jobs even sweeter, eh?? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: happylanding on January 18, 2007, 08:33:32 PM
I'm with you 100% on the dangers of dealing with an unpredictable public... like you said, structural firefighters, EMS and police all face some pretty crazy situations these days. One of my sisters had wild stories from being an ER nurse -- especially with people who were high. One guy kept screaming about the "black helicopters" in the room that were "shooting at them". He was wildly out of control and was furious at her that she wasn't ducking under the tables to avoid the "gunfire". WOW. Makes our jobs even sweeter, eh?? ;D ;D ;D
Oh Soccermom, does your sister work in the ER of a psychopath clinic? Wow, it's pretty strange the world! ::rofl::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 18, 2007, 08:39:44 PM
HA HA, NO, that was just your regular old Emergency Room! :o
Though, she sure has the background for dealing with some off-the-wall people -- i.e., just from being in our family!!! Hee hee!! ;D
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: fireflyr on January 24, 2007, 02:27:27 PM
And the people in the picture are who ???
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on January 24, 2007, 03:34:50 PM
I've read the diver story a few times now (was it in this thread?). Sounds like we lost a good man, god rest his soul.
I am just a little confused on how this all is supposed to fit in here . . . ???
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on January 24, 2007, 11:56:18 PM
aha! I see....
sorry, must have spaced out there a little
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on January 27, 2007, 08:28:50 AM
Crop dusters and the 135 guys up here probobly help a lot with the pilot stuff... I don't know of many commercial operator fatal crashes this year, but I know of 2 part 135 crashes in the last two months if I count this one below. Only reason I even know about this one is I happened upon it while looking up info on the Continental incident last week. This 207 is registered to a leasing company, it's an assumption on my part that it's a 135 bird, but that's most likely... there aren't as many pilots as there are in some other professions, so every crash adds to it. There were also additional crashes in the last 10 days (currently on the prelim site) that would go into the statistics as they involve corporate or other professional flying pilots.
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Substantial
LOCATION City: KENAI State: AK Country: US
DESCRIPTION ACFT CRASHED AFTER REPORTING ENGINE PROBLEMS, WAS SUBJECT OF A SEARCH AND RESCUE, WRECKAGE LOCATED IN COOK INLET CHANNEL, PIC NOT LOCATED AND PRESUMMED FATAL, KENAI, AK
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 27, 2007, 06:49:07 PM
What Continental incident?
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 27, 2007, 10:28:30 PM
Believe the captain died inflight, and the first officer landed after a divert. Don't know the details....
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on January 28, 2007, 03:21:58 AM
do you know if they diverted?
I wonder what they do in a situation like that... continue the flight? land somewhere close and have the passengers wonder what happened? . . .
I bet there is no emergency checklist for "Captain kicks the bucket in flight"
What would be the squawk code on this? (since there are 2 pilots it can't be 7700, can it?)
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 28, 2007, 04:18:05 AM
Well, Google says they left Houston for Puerto Vallarta, on Continental #1838, a B-757. The Captain fell ill after a while and the copilot asked the airline what to do; they said to divert to McAllen, Texas, to meet a waiting ambulance. The medical guy said the pilot was on the floor when they boarded the plane; the crew and some of the passengers ("a couple of doctors and nurses") had done CPR and tried to revive him, but he died. A different crew got on and the flight went on to Mexico.
The autopsy was still to be done, so the definitive cause of death wasn't stated, though they mentioned a heart attack.
Pretty sad for everyone! It said he had been with them for 20 years.
R.I.P.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on January 28, 2007, 04:38:30 AM
Well, Google says they left Houston for Puerto Vallarta, on Continental #1838, a B-757. The Captain fell ill after a while and the copilot asked the airline what to do; they said to divert to McAllen, Texas, to meet a waiting ambulance. The medical guy said the pilot was on the floor when they boarded the plane; the crew and some of the passengers ("a couple of doctors and nurses") had done CPR and tried to revive him, but he died. A different crew got on and the flight went on to Mexico.
The autopsy was still to be done, so the definitive cause of death wasn't stated, though they mentioned a heart attack.
Pretty sad for everyone! It said he had been with them for 20 years.
R.I.P.
Apparently the F/O was actually a company check airman. There are a number of commercial airports in Mexico that require crews to be "checked out" and "current" to operate into them due to different aspects (terrain, weird approaches etc). Some airlines apparently have crews that essentially only do those runs to make it easier, others have check airmen operating as f/os on all those runs, and others deal with keeping people checked out. I don't know whether Continental uses a check airman as the f/o on every flight, or if it just happened to be time for the captain to have another review.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on January 28, 2007, 04:51:18 AM
Do you think he was stressed about his checkride and had a heart attack?
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on January 28, 2007, 05:24:03 AM
Do you think he was stressed about his checkride and had a heart attack?
Wasn't the impression I got, but I guess that could be a possibility. However, I don't think these checkout flights are supposed to be all that stressful... basically the check airman acts like a "guide" for whatever is weird for the flight.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on January 28, 2007, 05:52:06 AM
If he's been flying for 20 years in the airlines I am pretty sure a checkride wasn't gonna phase him much anyways. I know all our FAA inspectors and they know what I know after 8 years of working with them. Not a whole bunch of surprises going on there.
What I think is shocking is the fact that airline pilots have to get checked every 6 months and nobody found anything. It's not the first time I heard a story similar to this one...
I guess when it's your time . . . . :(
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on January 28, 2007, 07:13:18 AM
If he's been flying for 20 years in the airlines I am pretty sure a checkride wasn't gonna phase him much anyways. I know all our FAA inspectors and they know what I know after 8 years of working with them. Not a whole bunch of surprises going on there.
What I think is shocking is the fact that airline pilots have to get checked every 6 months and nobody found anything. It's not the first time I heard a story similar to this one...
I guess when it's your time . . . . :(
Some would say what better way than to be doing what you love...
When I came up here a bit less than a year ago to interview with the Air Guard, there was an article in the base newspaper at Eielson AFB about an Air Force pilot who helped the pilot on a 737 on a domestic flight when his f/o had a siezure (sounded like they did the movie style "does anyone here know how to fly an airplane?" over the intercom!). In the article he sounded about as excited as a fresh private pilot would be to do something like that...
It doesn't happen too often, but considering the number of flights, it does happen. There are just some medical conditions that aren't diagnosable.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: undatc on January 28, 2007, 07:15:17 AM
as far as from an ATC stand point, 7700 can be used for any emergency, heart attack to your wing falling off. Basicly all its tells us is that youre in trouble and you get priority handeling, thats it. 7700 is considered a non descreate sqwak so for us its just another number.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on January 28, 2007, 08:09:05 AM
as far as from an ATC stand point, 7700 can be used for any emergency, heart attack to your wing falling off. Basicly all its tells us is that youre in trouble and you get priority handeling, thats it. 7700 is considered a non descreate sqwak so for us its just another number.
What he said. I'd like to add that any type of medical emergency among passengers could qualify too. Keep in mind that you don't have to reset your transponder to declare an emergency.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on January 28, 2007, 08:47:28 AM
ST. AUGSTINE, FL -- Tom Addison Fitzgerald is known by most people in St. Augustine as Tom. He's a professional photographer and has his own business, Addison Fitzgerald Studios.
This past weekend he was on his way to a photo shoot in Mexico on a plane from Houston, when he lived though something he'll never forget.
Addison said the steward asked if anyone on board was a doctor. He didn't think much of that.
Then he says he saw two people pull the unconscious pilot from the cockpit and perform CPR on him.
"I was trying to calm myself, tell myself that I'd be alright. Then I got anxious. I started thinking about my wife and my child. Even more, I was thinking about the pilot and his family," Addison said.
Addison then heard another announcement. This time the flight steward was asking if anyone knew how to fly a plane.
It turned out, the man seated next to Addison was a pilot.
"So I leaned over and I said, 'can you handle this?' He said, 'I have a small plane. I'm going to go up there.'"
That man helped the co-pilot make an emergency landing. Addison said it was a hard landing, but it was a safe one.
The pilot died right in front of Addison. He said he died three minutes before the landing.
Addison also said applause from the 210 passengers rang out for the co-pilot and the passenger who stepped up and helped out.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 29, 2007, 05:02:23 PM
My luck would be they'd ask if anyone can fly and there'd be 10 other guys on the flight with licenses. I suppose he got to log that as SIC and dual received.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: undatc on January 29, 2007, 05:16:39 PM
What he said. I'd like to add that any type of medical emergency among passengers could qualify too. Keep in mind that you don't have to reset your transponder to declare an emergency.
True you don't have to reset, but then we don't "have" to give you priority handling until you do, I think any controller would thou, but its not in the regs that we "Shall". If I remember correctly, i don't feel like pulling out the 7110, ATC cant ask you to sqwak 7700, you have to do it on your own.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 29, 2007, 05:26:13 PM
And that's only if you have time. Obviously, in this case there would be time, but flying the airplane is still #1.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on January 30, 2007, 06:46:41 AM
True you don't have to reset, but then we don't "have" to give you priority handling until you do, I think any controller would thou, but its not in the regs that we "Shall". If I remember correctly, i don't feel like pulling out the 7110, ATC cant ask you to sqwak 7700, you have to do it on your own.
Sorry, I don't think this is correct.
From the AIM:
Quote
6-3-2. Obtaining Emergency Assistance
a. A pilot in any distress or urgency condition should immediately take the following action, not necessarily in the order listed, to obtain assistance:
1. Climb, if possible, for improved communications, and better radar and direction finding detection. However, it must be understood that unauthorized climb or descent under IFR conditions within controlled airspace is prohibited, except as permitted by 14 CFR Section 91.3(b).
2. If equipped with a radar beacon transponder (civil) or IFF/SIF (military):
(a) Continue squawking assigned Mode A/3 discrete code/VFR code and Mode C altitude encoding when in radio contact with an air traffic facility or other agency providing air traffic services, unless instructed to do otherwise.
(b) If unable to immediately establish communications with an air traffic facility/agency, squawk Mode A/3, Code 7700/Emergency and Mode C.
3. Transmit a distress or urgency message consisting of as many as necessary of the following elements, preferably in the order listed:
(a) If distress, MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAY-DAY; if urgency, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN.
(b) Name of station addressed.
(c) Aircraft identification and type.
(d) Nature of distress or urgency.
(e) Weather.
(f) Pilots intentions and request.
(g) Present position, and heading; or if lost, last known position, time, and heading since that position.
b. After establishing radio contact, comply with advice and instructions received. Cooperate. Do not hesitate to ask questions or clarify instructions when you do not understand or if you cannot comply with clearance. Assist the ground station to control communications on the frequency in use. Silence interfering radio stations. Do not change frequency or change to another ground station unless absolutely necessary. If you do, advise the ground station of the new frequency and station name prior to the change, transmitting in the blind if necessary. If two-way communications cannot be established on the new frequency, return immediately to the frequency or station where two-way communications last existed.
c. When in a distress condition with bailout, crash landing or ditching imminent, take the following additional actions to assist search and rescue units:
1. Time and circumstances permitting, transmit as many as necessary of the message elements in subparagraph a3 above, and any of the following that you think might be helpful:
(a) ELT status.
(b) Visible landmarks.
(c) Aircraft color.
(d) Number of persons on board.
(e) Emergency equipment on board.
2. Actuate your ELT if the installation permits.
3. For bailout, and for crash landing or ditching if risk of fire is not a consideration, set your radio for continuous transmission.
4. If it becomes necessary to ditch, make every effort to ditch near a surface vessel. If time permits, an FAA facility should be able to get the position of the nearest commercial or Coast Guard vessel from a Coast Guard Rescue Coordination Center.
5. After a crash landing, unless you have good reason to believe that you will not be located by search aircraft or ground teams, it is best to remain with your aircraft and prepare means for signaling search aircraft.
If you're already with ATC it specifically says to remain with your current squawk (note that is if you are in radio contact). Somehow that makes me doubt that the change is *required* to be ensured assistance. ;)
Since it was referenced above, 91.3 (b) states:
Quote
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: tundra_flier on January 30, 2007, 07:38:33 AM
as far as from an ATC stand point, 7700 can be used for any emergency, heart attack to your wing falling off. Basicly all its tells us is that youre in trouble and you get priority handeling, thats it. 7700 is considered a non descreate sqwak so for us its just another number.
What he said. I'd like to add that any type of medical emergency among passengers could qualify too. Keep in mind that you don't have to reset your transponder to declare an emergency.
Does an over full bladder count as a medical emergency? ::sick:: ::rofl::
Phil
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 30, 2007, 07:47:14 AM
Phil!! Have you been riding around with me, and not told me?!?!?! ;D
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2007, 06:13:34 AM
If you're already with ATC it specifically says to remain with your current squawk (note that is if you are in radio contact). Somehow that makes me doubt that the change is *required* to be ensured assistance. ;)
Well, I think it's pretty neat that you are able to look up all the little details about emergency procedures and what it specifically says in the regs but I have the feeling you haven't really had a real emergency yet. ::thinking:: Am I right ?!
Here is the only thing that counts: (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
I was just trying to be funny earlier in this thread . . .
In all reality this subject is as serious as a heart attack (all pun intended . . . ;) )
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2007, 06:16:49 AM
Does an over full bladder count as a medical emergency? ::sick:: ::rofl::
Phil
I think it does . . . AS SOON AS YOU PEE YOUR PANTS !!! wooahahahah ::rofl:: ::silly::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: tundra_flier on February 01, 2007, 06:36:50 AM
Well, I met a pilot who really really had to go while flying a Super Cub in -30F weather. ::sick:: He was on wheels, so no emergency landing sites around. Finally he gave up and wet himself. ::whistle:: 10 seconds later all the windows frosted up completely! ::banghead::
Phil
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2007, 07:00:27 AM
HA HA!
I can see a strip there !! what a story!
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on February 01, 2007, 08:19:40 AM
Well, I think it's pretty neat that you are able to look up all the little details about emergency procedures and what it specifically says in the regs but I have the feeling you haven't really had a real emergency yet. ::thinking:: Am I right ?!
Here is the only thing that counts: (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
I was just trying to be funny earlier in this thread . . .
In all reality this subject is as serious as a heart attack (all pun intended . . . ;) )
I was only referencing Chris (undatc) on the quote about *having* to squawk emergency to be *ensured* assistance. Not trying to say not to do it, just that it's not a requirement. Goes back towards the deviations as well. In any case, it didn't ring right with me so I looked it up. I wasn't looking for when you're *supposed* to squawk 7700, just whether there was really a *requirement* to do so to ensure priority.
The reason I gave that last quote was: if ATC isn't going to GIVE me priority in an emergency, I'm going to use that part to TAKE it if I deem it neccessary.
Guess the "best" one I've had is severe icing on an ILS. Captain's Nav radio died (best we can figure is ice on the antenna), his windshield couldn't be cleared and I had a 3x3" hole to see out of to land with. Even got iced over on the side windows in the cockpit (normally they seem to stay clear on a 1900). We didn't declare an emergency (we had our hands full enough), but if the ice hadn't gotten loose enough on my side for the wipers to clear off that little area and we'd had to go missed, we would have been in trouble... We actually weren't in the icing very long, the problem was the very steep double inversion present. Went from pretty darn cold to "warm" (ice) and then very cold. We couldn't make enough heat on the windshields with the windshield heat on high, and even diverting all heat in the aircraft to the defrost vents (and bleed air heat works quite well) couldn't get them hot enough to melt he ice. The defrost did just enough that help from the wipers let me see. It was big freak event that alllowed it to add up, but tower didn't know about it until after we were on the ground and had time to report our encounter.
Anyway, I'm not going to play "who's got the better story" or anything like that. Besides, I'm sure you've got a lot more than me. My whole reason for looking stuff up was my shock of the idea that ATC would be able to deny priority in an emergency if they wanted just because of a squawk. The *only* reason I posted that much information was to make sure I wasn't leaving anything out that could make it appear I was hiding information to support my argument. I made a specific point to include the text authorizing any action deemed neccessary.
In an emergency situation the official procedures are *recommendations* and are flexible to whatever the PIC deems neccessary. In emergency situations you have two set priorities. 1) fly the airplane 2) get your passengers, and yourself, safely on the ground or otherwise out of the situation
Everything else is secondary. I'll let ATC know something is going on when I have time, but that's not going to be a priority. The above example for instance. If it'd happened 30 miles out we would have easily declared an emergency, but coming down an ILS we had more important things to worry about. Fortunately it was my flying leg, as the last thing you want to do in the middle of an approach is switch out duties.
I might be reading it wrong, but I get the impression you are implying I don't know what happens in an emergency situation. While it might be true I havn't had to put down in the bush yet, I am fully aware of there being a time and place for procedures. Getting stuck on making sure your "procedures" are right re: the regs can get you killed in an emergency. I posted this information as a *reference* and reference only. Please don't infer that this means I think you *must* follow them.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2007, 04:57:25 PM
I might be reading it wrong, but I get the impression you are implying I don't know what happens in an emergency situation. While it might be true I havn't had to put down in the bush yet, I am fully aware of there being a time and place for procedures. Getting stuck on making sure your "procedures" are right re: the regs can get you killed in an emergency. I posted this information as a *reference* and reference only. Please don't infer that this means I think you *must* follow them.
Jeez, man! Why do you always have to be so serious about everything?! ::knockedout:: No offence, but seriously...
Of course I am not implying you don't know what to do in an emergency.
In an emergency situation the official procedures are *recommendations* and are flexible to whatever the PIC deems neccessary. In emergency situations you have two set priorities. 1) fly the airplane 2) get your passengers, and yourself, safely on the ground or otherwise out of the situation
But I was trying to keep it light and fun because I want to keep this forum from becoming like the one on AOPA....
Like I said, no offence please. I just sometimes see our project threatened with things like that. And this is just my personal opinion. If you look at the thread, it started kind of light hearted with fun remarks and then got dead-serious and ended up with people quoting eachother the regs. I think you'll see where I am coming from. So then I just shot a little remark in there to see what you'll do and it looks like it backfired. That's all.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2007, 06:33:25 PM
¡Hey, America´s most dangerous jobs is writing down different opinions on this Forum! And good Morning to you all: ::wave:: may God give you the Wisdom ::whistle:: to have a peaceful & friendly difference. For the rest of us it´s entertainment, we learn a lot (I do) and like this place very much. Some are serious |:)\ and some are humorous, ::rofl:: but we all Love Fligth Passionatly. ::rambo::
DonYan: On this corner... ::knockedout::
HA HA! Good one! ;D
I've seen some forums get out of hand and people telling eachother things they would never say to eachother in person. They gloves come off much faster and nobody is polite anymore. I guess it's the curse of the internet combined with it's anonymety (-->is this a word??) . . .
But mainly I think it's because the internet doesn't give you the opportunity to just go have a beer together and talk things out ! ::drinking:: ;D
I have learned A LOT of things about flying while listening to the "old" guys talk while having a beer. I have even recommended it to my students (hang with the experienced pilots and let them talk --> drink responsively of course !!!) **
** I probably need to put in this disclamer so we don't get sued down the road! ::whistle::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2007, 06:58:15 PM
to make up for it, we could just use this smiley a lot more for now --> ::drinking:: ::drinking::
HA HA!
BTW Well said Don!! 8) Thanks for the input!
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Baradium on February 01, 2007, 09:03:58 PM
Sorry Mike, I'm not trying to make it like that.
Unfortunately without hearing inflection in voice etc, stuff can sound more serious over the internet than it'd be taken normally. I try to treat discussions as a learning experience for myself. If I posted a reg, it usually means I wasn't sure about something so I went and looked it up (if I'm already confident about something, I'm generally too lazy to do that ;) ). Since I didn't know, I assume that maybe others didn't either and I always think it's good for everyone to have as much information as possible. In this case, I really didn't want anyone to get the impression that they had some type of obligation to mess with a transponder in an emergency, but I also didn't really know what the reccomendation was in that case.
With most of the captains I fly with, we'll have discussions about this type of thing periodically. We'll be talking about something and dissagree about what is technically legal or not in a given situation, but neither one of us can actually quote a reg on it. After the flight one or both of us will do some digging and we'll talk about it again the next time we fly together. I say most because there are always a few guys who don't really care what the reg actually says once they have an opinion formed about what it *should* say!
In some areas the regs are pretty gray, and some areas they are fairly cut and dried. If something about what a *reg* says comes up, I have a hard time not saying something if I don't agree with that interpretation.
I promise I'd say most of the same things in person, just that they probobly wouldn't be taken the same way and a lot of normal chatter you'd have in a live conversation gets lost in posts. That post wasn't meant to be a "I don't agree with you and here's why you're wrong" post as it was I didn't have any clue and got curious and looked it up. When I found what I figured was information that would indicate otherwise I put it up... and just didn't do a good job explaining myself. Unfortunately it just doesn't usually occur to me that everyone can't just read my mind so they know what I'm trying to say or how I got to that point. I can honestly say I didn't have any clue why you seemed to get worked up until I reread what *I* posted just now and a lightbulb *finally* went off.
Chris, I really owe you an apology as welll, did not intend at all for that post to come out like that.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2007, 09:51:31 PM
It's all good man!
Let's go back to posting and having fun !! WOOT WOOT !! ::drinking:: ::drinking::
I wasn't really all that worked up about it anyways. . . . no apologies necessary
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: fireflyr on February 02, 2007, 02:40:42 AM
Well, I met a pilot who really really had to go while flying a Super Cub in -30F weather. ::sick:: He was on wheels, so no emergency landing sites around. Finally he gave up and wet himself. ::whistle:: 10 seconds later all the windows frosted up completely! ::banghead::
Phil
Is flight under those conditions logged as "IPC?" ::silly:: ::thinking::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on February 02, 2007, 02:47:24 AM
This IS all good, a nice forum with a lot of nice folks, and it's always fun to visit, check out airplanes (and even those wild rotary-powered-things?!!) and stories and adventures, even though I am sitting here on a warm sofa with a blanket to curl up in!!!
I really enjoy hearing from so many far-flung people, that always amazes me, I mean, we have Denmark and Alaska and California and the Midwest and the U.K..... it's so neat!
The Mom-ster*******
P.S. warning: It will get dangerous, if we venture into those pee stories again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: tundra_flier on February 02, 2007, 02:56:08 AM
Well, I met a pilot who really really had to go while flying a Super Cub in -30F weather. ::sick:: He was on wheels, so no emergency landing sites around. Finally he gave up and wet himself. ::whistle:: 10 seconds later all the windows frosted up completely! ::banghead::
Phil
Is flight under those conditions logged as "IPC?" ::silly:: ::thinking::
IPC?? I peed in Cockpit? ;D Imersed pilot condition? :-[ Instant Pee Cloud? ::sweat::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on February 02, 2007, 03:24:26 AM
Oh. forgive me Don Yan!!!!!!! Of course I did not mean to leave out Dear Old Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be right over!!!!!!! ;D ;D
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Turbomallard on February 02, 2007, 04:58:18 AM
Oh. forgive me Don Yan!!!!!!! Of course I did not mean to leave out Dear Old Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be right over!!!!!!! ;D ;D
Soccer Mom needs an avtar... Mike? Stef...?
TM
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on February 02, 2007, 05:26:13 AM
Uh oh! You must be sick and tired of my musical-chairs repertoire of dumb pictures?!?!?
Hmmm.... you're a real quacker..... ;D
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: Turbomallard on February 02, 2007, 01:44:03 PM
Not so much that as curiosity of what a Soccermom chicken would look like. Hmmm. How about leaning out the window of the infamous white minivan waving? ::wave:: Or maybe in the cockpit wearing a helmet painted with soccer ball markings? ;) Or fighting a giant terrorist badger? ::rambo:: And most certainly not standing with a shotgun duck hunting... ::unbelieveable:: ::eek::
TM
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: undatc on February 02, 2007, 03:30:42 PM
Not so much that as curiosity of what a Soccermom chicken would look like. Hmmm. How about leaning out the window of the infamous white minivan waving? ::wave:: Or maybe in the cockpit wearing a helmet painted with soccer ball markings? ;) Or fighting a giant terrorist badger? ::rambo:: And most certainly not standing with a shotgun duck hunting... ::unbelieveable:: ::eek::
TM
Terrorist badger eh? I might pay to see that.
And further more, Ill quote my favorite characters here, "its duck season! wabbit season! duck season! wabbit season! duck season! wabbit season! duck season! ILL TELL YA ONE LAST TIME HAIR BALL, ITS DUCK SEASON. Ok you have your way daffy."
But mainly I think it's because the internet doesn't give you the opportunity to just go have a beer together and talk things out ! ::drinking:: ;D
I have learned A LOT of things about flying while listening to the "old" guys talk while having a beer. I have even recommended it to my students (hang with the experienced pilots and let them talk --> drink responsively of course !!!) **
** I probably need to put in this disclamer so we don't get sued down the road! ::whistle::
We always talk about throwing a few back before we hit the scopes in lab, makes it so we have less dots to deal with. However it has the unusual side effect of making them move in strange ways too.... And definately some weird vectors for final.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: undatc on February 02, 2007, 03:45:23 PM
Ya know, reading back through this, as I havent really paid that close attention to this thread, I find myself consulting my spanish dictionary a lot. I have to say, donyan you're forcing me to pay attention in clase de espanol y estuido mas.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: undatc on February 02, 2007, 06:44:31 PM
Ya know, reading back through this, as I havent really paid that close attention to this thread, I find myself consulting my spanish dictionary a lot. I have to say, donyan you're forcing me to pay attention in clase de espanol y estuido mas.
;D Bravo, Señor UNDATC! English has become the International Language: ::bow:: anywhere on this Earth you can comunicate in English (one exception being Parisian Café Waiters ::complaining:) but here on this continent, América, we all speak Spanish ::drinking:: (english as a Second Language) with the exception of Canada, USA and Brasil. Buena suerte! |:)\
DonYan ::wave::
Brasil es proteges. We actually have a Brazilian guy in my Spanish class and someone asked him why he was in it. Thought it was a little funny as their national language is Portuguese (sp?)
*edit nvm I'm dumb, i didn't read your post correctly.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: TheSoccerMom on February 02, 2007, 06:46:50 PM
Hola Don, I have a pretty Lockheed one I will go find, just for you! I'll stick it under the Camera thread, okay? Adios! ::wave::
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: undatc on February 02, 2007, 07:06:28 PM
Its not surprising you did. All of them, including Italian and French are "romance languages" and all dervied from Latin. So they all share similar structures as well as a good chunk of works.
Title: Re: "America's Most Dangerous Jobs"
Post by: YawningMan on February 05, 2007, 05:08:58 PM
Not dumb at all! I like them: and observe your Aircraft preferences with great anticipation plus all possible dispach! ::thinking:: (Wow, that sounds great: but who knows what it means... ::whistle::) And others bring back good memories long forgoten. You have very good taste, acording to my humble prefferences. ::bow::
DonYan ::type::
I don't know about you guys, but I'm really beginning to like this guy! ::rofl:: It's a bit late, I know, but welcome to the forums, DonYan!
