Roost Air Lounge => Current Strip => Topic started by: undatc on December 26, 2006, 11:39:49 AM
Title: Management
Post by: undatc on December 26, 2006, 11:39:49 AM
Gotta love them. Especially the guys at the >:D FAA >:D. If you havent heard, you should really look at what they are doing to NATCA and the controllers, how they are screwing us over ::sick::, and really making it unsafe for you as pilots, and the general population for flying.
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on December 26, 2006, 06:43:03 PM
Gotta love them. Especially the guys at the >:D FAA >:D. If you havent heard, you should really look at what they are doing to NATCA and the controllers, how they are screwing us over ::sick::, and really making it unsafe for you as pilots, and the general population for flying.
Care to 'splain' that to us folks who may not be in touch with what you're reading ??? Them guvmint folks have an agenda that's not known by everyone, which is scary ::eek::
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Frank N. O. on December 27, 2006, 01:06:31 AM
Sorry to hear about this, I hope it works out for the best for the people who actually depend on this, meaning controllers, pilots and passengers specifically. However since this is such an important issue for aviation then how come it's not in the aviation forum instead of here in the comic strip discussion?
On a similar note, I remember when I started my engineering degree, that had to be terminated due to a delayed depression and other problems relating to the death of my dad, then the business said that around the time I would've been a diploma engineer (3 1/2 year degree) there would be a massive need for engineers, however the last several years there have been up to 50% unemployment for new engineers, it was all a big lie/false information.
This however is not as much a problem of people being unemployed as it is a horrible risk of fatal accidents and more (I can't imagine a controller will feel good about falling asleep on the job and indirectly causing a crash either if it came to that). Humans have limits and in the modern day then the human factor isn't really seen depsite the indication of many people in power. I would help if I could, but I don't have a congresman sorry :(
Frank
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Frank N. O. on December 27, 2006, 01:12:20 AM
Just ask a mod to move the thread, most forum admin tools have this function.
Btw, I added to my above post while you typed.
Frank
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2006, 06:14:24 PM
I don't think we absolutely have to move the thread. The strips are designed to spark discussions as well as trigger uncontrollable laughter !!
It's called "Controller Shortage" or something. Can this be the same topic? We really needed a controller back then in April . . .
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Baradium on January 04, 2007, 01:17:57 PM
Tonight (well, last night now, I just havn't made it to bed yet), we were departing Deadhorse (Prudhoe Bay) to return home to Fairbanks. We wanted to get more direct to fairbanks and a different altitude. 15,000 ft to stay under a strong headwind in the flight levels.
Anyway, we ask center if we can have 15 for a final and more direct. He comes back with "Frontier 10, you can go wherever you want!" Now, tonight I was flying with our cheif pilot, a funny guy. His response is "Frontier 10, in that case, we'd like to go to China." Center, having a sense of humor comes back with "Frontier 10, cleared to China via Wake Island, maintain one five thousand... or you can proceed direct Fairbanks."
We're sitting there amused at the controller and glad he has a sense of humor when he comes back... "Frontier 10, my supervisor wasn't very amused at the last, I need to confirm you understand that you are NOT cleared to China, it was a joke. Proceed direct Fairbanks at one five thousand."
Come on now, sounded like the poor controller had gotten a chewing out too. No wonder it's so hard to get a response to jokes in responses with these guys with supervisors getting upset so easy.
He was probobly controlling at least half of the state and probobly had 5 aircraft talking to him.
Title: Re: Management
Post by: happylanding on January 04, 2007, 02:51:04 PM
"Frontier 10, my supervisor wasn't very amused at the last, I need to confirm you understand that you are NOT cleared to China, it was a joke. Proceed direct Fairbanks at one five thousand."
Come on now, sounded like the poor controller had gotten a chewing out too. No wonder it's so hard to get a response to jokes in responses with these guys with supervisors getting upset so easy.
He was probobly controlling at least half of the state and probobly had 5 aircraft talking to him.
Oh that's a shame! it's not usual to find somebody who is willing to use his sense of humour in towers :(
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on January 04, 2007, 04:10:07 PM
GOOD GRIEF----That's funny! ;D Too bad we live in such a tight ass litigious society that some guy in ATC gets chewed out for having a sense of humor ::banghead::
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 06, 2007, 04:16:30 PM
I try to tell my students to sound like they have a personality on the radio. It makes the controllers act more human. ;)
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on January 07, 2007, 03:53:21 PM
Very true. I talk with a lot of controllers in my training. And a simple, "Good morning grand forks tower, this is sioux fifty eight...." goes a long way.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE---If you are competent, succinct, and pleasant, controllers will usually respond in kind. I say "usually" because, like pilots, they have good days ::wave:: and bad days too ::complaining:
Title: Re: Management
Post by: digits on January 07, 2007, 04:06:04 PM
Very true. I talk with a lot of controllers in my training. And a simple, "Good morning grand forks tower, this is sioux fifty eight...." goes a long way.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE---If you are competent, succinct, and pleasant, controllers will usually respond in kind. I say "usually" because, like pilots, they have good days ::wave:: and bad days too ::complaining:
i find it very funny you say this. when i was studying for my theoreticaly ppl exam, in one of the books it said: "avoid greetings and thank you's etc as much as possible and stick to standard phrasology" (well, it said it in dutch, so my transaltion is a little off, but you get the idea;) )
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Frank N. O. on January 07, 2007, 04:13:36 PM
This might vary a big depending on where and when you fly. If it's a busy place then it's probably best for the ATC if you make your transmissions short and concise. Rod Machado had some suggestions on this too, for instance if you were flying and wanted to know if there was bad weather up ahead you could ask if there were any planes diverted due to weather, this would only require a short yes or no answer from the ATC instead of having him/her tell what the weather is. Quite a good idea actually, but it's a team sport flying, pilots and controllers alike have to be flexible and understand each other's situation, then we can be as efficient as humanly possible (at least that's my take on it and I think it's good until proven otherwise).
And btw Jim is right, we all have good and bad days and a bad response might be due to a bad day and not because the person him/herself is bad so a cool, mild and understanding response will go a long away, that's at least my personal experience, both for myself and others and if you got a bad day then it's helpful and nice when other people still act relaxed and friendly instead of responding sourly right back at you :)
Frank
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on January 07, 2007, 04:39:50 PM
Very true. I talk with a lot of controllers in my training. And a simple, "Good morning grand forks tower, this is sioux fifty eight...." goes a long way.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE---If you are competent, succinct, and pleasant, controllers will usually respond in kind. I say "usually" because, like pilots, they have good days ::wave:: and bad days too ::complaining:
i find it very funny you say this. when i was studying for my theoreticaly ppl exam, in one of the books it said: "avoid greetings and thank you's etc as much as possible and stick to standard phrasology" (well, it said it in dutch, so my transaltion is a little off, but you get the idea;) )
Depends on variables such as how busy is the frequency?---remember, competent and succinct come first and pleasant is a manner of vocal delivery, not an express word or group of words.
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Mike on January 08, 2007, 09:37:33 AM
Hey, UNDATC!
This might be a stupid question, but: Is there a difference in training between a controller headed for big TRACONS versus becoming a tower or approach controller? Do you have to decide before you start training which you want to be? Or do you learn it all in school and then decide later or just go where the job is ??
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 08, 2007, 05:11:19 PM
I've had very nice conversations with controllers many a time. If you ever go into Fargo after 9 pm, you'd probably be doing the controller there a favor by talking and keeping him/her awake.
Oh, wait. The FAA, in their infinite wisdom, closed the approach control at Fargo at night. It's now handled by Minneapolis Center, which is 300 miles away. ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead::
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Mike on January 10, 2007, 10:40:55 AM
woah!
thanks for the info! I appreciate it. good to have a guy working "for the dark side" in here! ;D
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on January 10, 2007, 02:49:34 PM
THANKS--appreciate the insight on the other end of the radio |:)\
Tell me, when the FA&A does a 15 year background check on a 21 year old----are they allowed to question your kindergarten teacher about how well you socialized with others at naptime ::sleep:: ::whistle::
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Frank N. O. on January 10, 2007, 04:12:07 PM
Wow, that's a looooong time to learn to be a controller, that must really take some dedication |:)\
Frank
P.S. Why isn't this in the Aviation forum? I thought this forum was only for the comic strip but I can't see what strip it could be linked to, but this thread contains very valuable information so it should be in a visible place.
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on January 10, 2007, 04:19:10 PM
Wow, that's a looooong time to learn to be a controller, that must really take some dedication |:)\
Frank
P.S. Why isn't this in the Aviation forum? I thought this forum was only for the comic strip but I can't see what strip it could be linked to, but this thread contains very valuable information so it should be in a visible place.
We do wander through the threads don't we? ::type:: Chuck is the perfect example of of a short attention span that is common to many pilo........WOW, look at that, what a prety sunrise :o
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Frank N. O. on January 10, 2007, 04:33:29 PM
Wow, that's a looooong time to learn to be a controller, that must really take some dedication |:)\
Frank
P.S. Why isn't this in the Aviation forum? I thought this forum was only for the comic strip but I can't see what strip it could be linked to, but this thread contains very valuable information so it should be in a visible place.
We do wander through the threads don't we? ::type:: Chuck is the perfect example of of a short attention span that is common to many pilo........WOW, look at that, what a prety sunrise :o
Lol that's true, but I just wanted to make sure someone didn't overlook this good info by thinking it was just for a CW comic strip, especially since it's quite important to aviation in general.
Frank
Title: Re: Management
Post by: chuckar101 on January 10, 2007, 07:44:02 PM
Again thanks for the info and you guys definately are a different breed. i couldnt stand waiting that long to get a real job and then the patience for the actual training ::unbelieveable::. Good luck and hopefuly we'll hear you over the radio soon.
Title: Re: Management
Post by: chuckar101 on January 15, 2007, 08:25:50 PM
So the "real" job for a pilot was the wrong wording, either way good luck.
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on January 15, 2007, 09:38:02 PM
Again thanks for the info and you guys definately are a different breed. i couldnt stand waiting that long to get a real job and then the patience for the actual training ::unbelieveable::. Good luck and hopefuly we'll hear you over the radio soon.
haha, pilots wait a lot longer to get a 'real job' lol.
sorry couldnt resist.
another quote i liked i heard last night, was "there are over 350,000 registered pilots in the US, while only 14,000 controllers, not everyone can do what we do."
And there needs to be more pilots---haven't heard of any controller getting his tower vectored into a mountain ::rambo::
Title: Re: Management
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 16, 2007, 01:30:22 AM
Very true, Jim.
:'(
I can count almost 30 pilots I know (okay, knew) who are no longer with us, and just can't say the same about other professions.
Hmmmm..... what's WRONG with this picture anyway.... where are those classified ads again?!?
Title: Re: Management
Post by: fireflyr on January 16, 2007, 05:32:21 AM
That's called stress--you guys do it for the money (like being a prostitude)
Pilots on the other hand, don't have that much stress--fact is a lot of us do it for recreation too. What that means is that we do it because we LOVE it (like being a low class whore)
Title: Re: Management
Post by: TheSoccerMom on January 16, 2007, 06:32:53 AM
Quote
And yea, we dont generally fall out of our towers, but considering controllers have the highest rate of alcaholism, suicide, depression, heart attacks, etc ( i could go on) we live a pretty dangerous life.
Quote
I'd bet living in UTAH results in much higher rates of all those BAD, BAD things you mentioned. [Been there, done that. Trust me.] >:D
And, I have to mention this ATC bit, and I have heard this only ONCE in my entire life, the night we were coming into BOI in the middle of the night, actually I guess the wee morning. The frequency was quiet at night, and we would get bored, and see how far out we could hit BOI approach. At the time, they were in the tower building, too. It was just a little game we played. The controllers here are great, and one especially GOOD night, we called about 100 nm out and HIT them. I can't recall but it was over 100 miles, and of course we were plenty high. We were all giggling, both of us pilots, and the techs in back (we were mapping forest fires at night).
Well, right in the middle of thinking we were pretty darned witty, and our tiny little brains were puffing right up, the approach guy called us back and said "Hey, King Air so-and-so, could you guys do me a big favor?"
Of course, we say YES. So he smoothly adds, "Could you just watch the frequency for me? I gotta step outside."
Well, gang, I know this is falling into that "you had to be there" category, but I SWEAR, I will never forget that -- we all gaped at each other in the dimly lit cabin, and we all had the exact same mental picture: this guy stepping out of the tower (literally), and we laughed uncontrollably all the way to the airport.
I'm sure it had something to do with it being the end of a 13-hour shift, and being rummy, and milling around in the dark all night, but -- we could NOT stop laughing. And, I mean that deep laughing where you can't even SEE. We all had tears running down our faces.
The guy called us back after we'd gone about 50 miles, and chirped "Heyyy! I'm back!! Anybody call??" which just set off another wave of laughter!!
I never knew exactly who it was, but I can recall that moment just as if it happened yesterday. I'm amazed we managed to get the gear down and find the runway. He was a HOOT. ::bow::
My hat is off to you guys! |:)\
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Frank N. O. on January 16, 2007, 02:48:15 PM
Now that's some of the things I'd love to experience in person! |:)\ ::bow:: ::rofl::
Frank
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Frank N. O. on January 16, 2007, 11:05:24 PM
You know keep up those great real-life stories and there's no way I'll give up on finding a way to come over and experience the wonderful life of north-american aviation in person |:)\ |:)\
Frank
Title: Re: Management
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2007, 04:31:57 AM
That's called stress--you guys do it for the money (like being a prostitude)
Pilots on the other hand, don't have that much stress--fact is a lot of us do it for recreation too. What that means is that we do it because we LOVE it (like being a low class whore)
doing it for free and recreation makes you a slut, doesn't it?! ::whistle::
