Roost Air Lounge => The Classroom => Topic started by: Zaffex on November 12, 2006, 01:31:52 AM
Title: Plane Ditching
Post by: Zaffex on November 12, 2006, 01:31:52 AM
Just read Flying's I Learned About Flying From That and it made me wonder: what would be the best way to ditch an aircraft over water (i.e. most survivable)? Would a retractable (gear up) handle better than a fixed gear on the water? Thoughts, comments?
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 12, 2006, 02:54:09 AM
Check out the Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM), Chapter 6 (Emergency Procedures), Section 3.
It's even online!!! ;D ;D
Go to: www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM
It has the ditching diagrams, too. Just perfect for bad dreams. Ha!!
8)
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 12, 2006, 04:09:49 PM
Also, take a good course in underwater egress. Heh, I even recommend it for passengers, especially spouses!
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 13, 2006, 02:15:50 AM
Excellent idea, on the egress training!! :D
I watched a single-engine on floats flip over... we were taxiing in and they were ahead of us, touching down on the water.. it was scary to see, but fortunately soon two heads popped up above the water, each next to a float. ???
I've talked to two other pilots who survived ditchings, and they each kept repeating the same thing: they could not believe how FAST the airplane sank, in each case. Again, good fortune prevailed, and they had just enough time to get rafts out, etc., and were rescued (each had passengers), but they were still shocked, years later, at that one thing.
I always figured empty places in fuel tanks and fuselages would (or at least, with luck, could) somehow contribute a little flotation, but they each said they had believed that once, too, and it was wrong.
Just their two cents' worth.......
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: Zaffex on November 14, 2006, 10:26:36 PM
Wow, how fast do they sink?
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 14, 2006, 10:59:03 PM
Depends on the circumstances. Type of plane, weather, water conditions, how good the landing was....
The Coasties that put on the underwater egress class I attended said it can happen VERY fast.
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 15, 2006, 01:14:27 AM
They said one (single-engine turbine) went under in less than 4 minutes, and the other (Twin Otter) in less than TWO minutes!! EEK.
Serious EEEK!! :o
That was a real shock to me, anyway... like I said, I guess I always somehow thought you'd have a LITTLE time... ???
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: Zaffex on November 15, 2006, 02:30:27 AM
Well, to be honest I thought it would sink faster (like in 30 seconds or so), so that doesn't seem so bad relative wise, but I suppose it goes by way too fast for anyone in it. :P
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: Zaffex on November 15, 2006, 09:13:39 PM
Hmm, I guess I need to pay better attention to the threads. I guess cj5_pilot already had this topic going. :-X Sorry to steal your thunder there, man.
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 15, 2006, 09:22:07 PM
LOL, all good bro :) The more people that are aware that there are classes in how to successfully get out of a plane the better. Lot of lakes and rivers and salt water in my part of Alaska. Lots of flying around water and lots of float planes. Now here's a scary thought for you: You land on a lake during the winter on skis. The lake looks safe.....then just as you shut the engine down, the plane goes through the ice.....
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: Baradium on November 15, 2006, 10:36:51 PM
LOL, all good bro :) The more people that are aware that there are classes in how to successfully get out of a plane the better. Lot of lakes and rivers and salt water in my part of Alaska. Lots of flying around water and lots of float planes. Now here's a scary thought for you: You land on a lake during the winter on skis. The lake looks safe.....then just as you shut the engine down, the plane goes through the ice.....
At least it'll be pretty quick... won't last long at all, even if you did manage to get back out of the water (assuming it happened quick enough that you didn't make it onto the ice before the plane went through)
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: Zaffex on November 15, 2006, 10:39:57 PM
Quote
Now here's a scary thought for you: You land on a lake during the winter on skis. The lake looks safe.....then just as you shut the engine down, the plane goes through the ice.....
Oh yes, I had heard of that scenario before. I've heard advice in an article where a pilot suggested that it's a good idea to make several runs over the landing area, making passes where you run the skis over the lake, allowing a little more weight at a time and checking for signs of stress until you can let the whole weight of the aircraft down.
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: Turbomallard on November 16, 2006, 07:37:52 PM
I used to watch geese do that when I lived in an apartment complex that had a pond outside my window. The geese would make a couple of formation low passes trying to figure out if it was frozen or not. A couple of times they apparently guessed wrong. The formation would fly over, honking, apparently talking things over, then the lead would make the decision and start down to land... the others would blindly follow. Sometimes they landed on the ice, apparently expecting water, and would promptly wipe out. On more than one occasion this would result in a multi-goose pileup with much squawking and clouds of feathers.
Ducks, of course, never did such things. ;D
TM
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: chuckar101 on November 20, 2006, 11:40:05 PM
I'll have to disagree on that one, I've seen ducks do that many a time. ;D
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 24, 2006, 12:15:05 AM
Yeah, but not TURBOducks.... :D :D
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: chuckar101 on November 25, 2006, 03:18:58 PM
:D :DYeah your right these are just normal ducks, never seen a turboduck aroung here.
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: YawningMan on February 05, 2007, 04:12:44 PM
Rofl! TurboMallard is beginning to sound like a superhero in the world of Roost Air!
"It's a bird! It's a plane! It's... True!"
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: tundra_flier on February 06, 2007, 05:21:51 AM
Now here's a scary thought for you: You land on a lake during the winter on skis. The lake looks safe.....then just as you shut the engine down, the plane goes through the ice.....
Oh yes, I had heard of that scenario before. I've heard advice in an article where a pilot suggested that it's a good idea to make several runs over the landing area, making passes where you run the skis over the lake, allowing a little more weight at a time and checking for signs of stress until you can let the whole weight of the aircraft down.
You, surprizingly, I've never heard of a fatality from that. I'd think just combination of cold and wet would result in a few fatalies. Anyone else hear of any? I'm wondering if it generally happens pretty slowly?
Phil
Title: Re: Plane Ditching
Post by: TheSoccerMom on February 07, 2007, 04:59:29 AM
HA HA, all I have heard was a FUNNY story about a newbie kid flying his first Alaska job.... had to go to a bunch of cabins on several lakes, in the winter... on skis.
He flew the route with the boss, and did okay, so they turned him loose on another route and said BYE. ::wave::
He said all went well until he landed on what looked like an ice-covered lake, with a "thin layer" of snow, and as he got out of the plane, he heard the cracks and, well, it sank -- but only up to the wings!! The weight was distributed such that the wings were holding the plane right there -- it wasn't sinking out of sight, but he was standing there on his FIRST DAY of work, looking at the TOPS of the wings of his boss' airplane. Down there by his.... boots!! ::sweat::
So, being a bright boy from Montana, he figured if it just sank, it would be insured.... right?!?
So.... since this would all work out a whole lot better if it just disappeared, he did what any smart ("CHUCK, IS THAT YOU?!?") pilot would do -- he started jumping up and down on the tops of the wings, hoping to give it that last good shove to push it out of sight, into the lake, once and for all. The boss would get his money, he would still have a job.... YEAH.
Imagine his GREAT chagrin when he heard an approaching airplane, its engine sound steadily growing across the expanse of the lake, and realized, as it buzzed right over him, that it was...... HIS BOSS, "checking up on the new kid"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::rofl::
He was fired (and at that very moment!!), but he ended up spending at least 45+ years in aviation, with an outstanding record, and was one helluva pilot. He never lost his sense of humor and always said "It still works out when you get fired.... it did for me!!" ;D
