Roost Air Lounge => General Discussion => Topic started by: switchtech on November 05, 2006, 04:01:15 AM
Title: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: switchtech on November 05, 2006, 04:01:15 AM
I took my daughter to Lackland Air Fest 2006 at the Kelly USA (Formerly Kelly Air Force Base). She was tired and didn't really get into the show, much :(
The whole production exudes professionalism. The ground team and pilots obviously train intensely. I missed a few maneuvers taking my daughter to the kids area, but we saw most of it. Just awesome. :o
I took a few pictures and some video (my camera doesn't do sound, though) and put them in my photo album at http://www.switchtech.us/cpg. The pictures barely do justice to the event.
jbs
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: spacer on November 05, 2006, 04:51:29 PM
We got to see the Blue Angels today, but I was there for the Red Barons. :) (http://www.redbaron.com/images/squadron/squadron_default01.jpg)
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on November 05, 2006, 06:31:41 PM
Anyone know what the Thunderbirds will use now? Do they still get to use the F-16's even though they're decommissioned?
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 05, 2006, 07:30:55 PM
Anyone know what the Thunderbirds will use now? Do they still get to use the F-16's even though they're decommissioned?
??????
First I've heard of the F-16s being decommisioned! ??? What gives with that?
I've seen the Blue Angels, the Thunderbirds and the Snow Birds. All three were excellent in their own way. I'd hate to have to pick a favorite, but if I HAD to I'd say Blue Angels....simply because of "Fat Albert" the JATO C-130! ;) ;D
Did the lead Solo Thunderbird do the "sneak attack" from behind the crowd? I always love that one. The '16 is hard to hear if it's coming directly from behind you until it goes overhead, then it goes vertical. I love to watch the crowd jump!
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on November 05, 2006, 07:38:43 PM
Yeah, the F-16 is done as of next year. The Happy Hooligans in Fargo (NDANG) have already lost theirs. They'll be getting C-21's (I think that's the designation. They're the military Lear 35 or 45) and will be flying Grand Forks' Predators. Everybody's pretty pissed that they didn't get another interceptor.
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 05, 2006, 10:35:55 PM
Hmm....I did a google search and see they are retiring about 180 of them but not the whole force. This is what I found:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article1369.html
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: switchtech on November 06, 2006, 01:46:25 AM
Did the lead Solo Thunderbird do the "sneak attack" from behind the crowd? I always love that one. The '16 is hard to hear if it's coming directly from behind you until it goes overhead, then it goes vertical. I love to watch the crowd jump!
They do it twice. The folks here cheer and wave their hands in the air for each "attack." It'd be doubly impressive done supersonic - but FAA says no can do (plus we'd all be deaf in short order if they kept it up).
I hadn't heard any rumours about the F16 retiring. The B1 did a fly over several times while I was driving in and parking. It was long gone by the time I was out of the car.
jbs
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: BrianGMFS on November 06, 2006, 02:17:45 AM
The F-16's retiring are probably some older A and B models assigned to Air National Guard units. The regular Air force and many Air guard units are still going strong using F-16's. Many times units will have their designation changed which usually means they get a different aircraft. In it's 60 year history, The Vermont Air Guard has gone through many aircraft types. they started with P-47's, then went to Mustangs, F-89 Scorpions, F-102's, EB-57 Canberra's (the last US unit to fly this type) F-4's and then F-16's. The "replacement" for the F-16 is the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter which won't be online for 10-12 years. Sometimes during force restructuring, one state will lose it's fighters and get a transport mission and another state will have to switch from C-130's to A-10's.. it all depends on what the Pentagon wants.
If you add in the Air Force Reserve units you get C-5's from Massachusetts Add in NY and NJ you get 2 more F-16 squadrons, another of C-130's, AF reserve C-5's, KC-10's and a Aerospace Rescue squadron.
Don't mess with the Northeast LOLOLOL
Brian
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: switchtech on November 06, 2006, 03:09:31 AM
If you add in the Air Force Reserve units you get C-5's from Massachusetts Add in NY and NJ you get 2 more F-16 squadrons, another of C-130's, AF reserve C-5's, KC-10's and a Aerospace Rescue squadron.
Don't mess with the Northeast LOLOLOL Brian
Here in Texas we have the "Commemorative Air Force" ... ;) (based in Midland Texas)
Plus we have the commercials that say "Don't Mess with Texas!"
Of course, those commercials really target litterbugs (don't "mess" with Texas, as in Don't Mess It Up with Litter!)
We have the Space Program, too!
jbs
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 06, 2006, 09:10:54 PM
Hmm...I don't recall all the unit designations here in Alaska, but I know we have the following aircraft:
F-15s F-16s OA-10s C-130s KC-135s AWACS
I understand Elmendorf is going to lose a F-15 squadron and pick up a F-22 Squadron. I also understand some C-17s will be assigned up here.
Oh and don't forget the ABM installation at Fort Greely!
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: Baradium on November 07, 2006, 01:07:50 AM
The listing of the A-10s up here reminds me...
The A-10s are all *supposed* to be in the guard units now... there isn't supposed to be an A-10 guard unit here, yet I promise you there are A-10s. ;)
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 07, 2006, 05:04:56 AM
The A-10s are all *supposed* to be in the guard units now... there isn't supposed to be an A-10 guard unit here, yet I promise you there are A-10s. ;)
OA-10s...*grin* there are "observation" aircraft ROFL! Yep, Eielson still has some...Elmendorf has the Viper instead.
Ask Tundra about some of the fun stuff he see's when Cope Thunder comes to town
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: Herk Fixer on November 07, 2006, 03:32:32 PM
Hey All,
The A-10/OA-10 is still in several units, in spite of repeated attempts to retire the airplane. See also: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/a-10-unit.htm
On the subject of the original thread: I enjoy the Thunderbirds every time I see them, but I have to say the Blue Angels put on a better show! (and I'm Air Force!)
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: Baradium on November 07, 2006, 06:35:18 PM
OA-10s...*grin* there are "observation" aircraft ROFL! Yep, Eielson still has some...Elmendorf has the Viper instead.
Ask Tundra about some of the fun stuff he see's when Cope Thunder comes to town
For "observation aircraft" they sure still have a lot of hard points and a mighty big gun!
I don't notice anything extra on them from a normal A-10 either. ;)
So where does the "O" come in?
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: cj5_pilot on November 07, 2006, 08:03:38 PM
It's actually more the role then any overt changes. The O means observation, and the OA-10s here in Alaska are used in the forward air control role. Basically they are spotting targets for the fast movers (F-16s and F-15E strike eagles). This role started in Vietnam first with Cessna Birddogs and later Mixmasters and OV-10s and other aircraft. Traditionally the FAC would mark targets with smoke rockets. These days they may do it by transmitting GPS co-ords--maybe one of our active service guys knows. The beauty of the A-10 is that it is well armored to protect the pilot and should somebody take a shot at them, well they can defend themselves unlike a Birddog. I understand one of the reasons behind the change from tank buster to FAC has to do with the gun supposedly being able to starve the engine of air in a prolonged burst. I think that's an urban legend, as I've never seen it substantiated in print.
Actually the Warthogs are the second aircraft to carry the OA-10 designation. The first was certain models of the PBY Catalina. The Catalina wreck at the Aviation Heritage Museum in Anchorage is one such.
Don't laugh, but back when I was nominated for the USAF Academy I wanted to fly either A-10s.....or C-130s!
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: Baradium on November 07, 2006, 10:30:22 PM
It's actually more the role then any overt changes. The O means observation, and the OA-10s here in Alaska are used in the forward air control role. Basically they are spotting targets for the fast movers (F-16s and F-15E strike eagles). This role started in Vietnam first with Cessna Birddogs and later Mixmasters and OV-10s and other aircraft. Traditionally the FAC would mark targets with smoke rockets. These days they may do it by transmitting GPS co-ords--maybe one of our active service guys knows. The beauty of the A-10 is that it is well armored to protect the pilot and should somebody take a shot at them, well they can defend themselves unlike a Birddog. I understand one of the reasons behind the change from tank buster to FAC has to do with the gun supposedly being able to starve the engine of air in a prolonged burst. I think that's an urban legend, as I've never seen it substantiated in print.
The rumor as you heard it is just that, a rumor... *however* it is based in a fact: the fire rate and recoil from the gatlin gun is high enough that a bust over 3 seconds would push the aircraft from operating speed into a stall. You have to realize exactly how big this cannon is. The A-10 is almost a cannon with an airframe built around it (the cannon is bigger than most cars). However, it's also not an issue. The cannon fires enough rounds and the rounds are large enough that there isn't a need for a sustained burst. A very short tap of the cannon will take out a tank.
I promise they are effective, I have a friend who was in the marines who unfortunately had his column get on the wrong side of a trigger happy A-10 pilot during the initial invasion of Iraq.
More A-10 stuff at the bottom.
Quote
Actually the Warthogs are the second aircraft to carry the OA-10 designation. The first was certain models of the PBY Catalina. The Catalina wreck at the Aviation Heritage Museum in Anchorage is one such.
Don't laugh, but back when I was nominated for the USAF Academy I wanted to fly either A-10s.....or C-130s!
There more of a story here?
More information: http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123028579 Calls the Eielson aircraft "A-10s"
http://www.eielson.af.mil/library/factsheets/355FS.doc Refers to Eielson having both A-10s AND OA-10s, not *only* OA-10s.
Quote
A/OA-10 Thunderbolt II
The A/OA-10 Thunderbolt II, assigned to the 355th Fighter Squadron, is Eielson’s close air support and forward air control aircraft. Working side-by-side with the F-16, the OA-10 is used to direct air strikes in support of Army forces in Alaska, while the A-10 performs close air support missions. Equipped with rockets, flares and other light ordnance, the OA-10 can perform many other missions, including observation, armed reconnaissance, ground attack, gunfire spotting for ground forces, target marking, search and rescue, and night/flare illumination. The A/OA-10 is a highly reliable, austere and rugged aircraft that may be operated from highways, semi-improved runways and dry or frozen lakebeds, with little support besides fuel and ordnance re-supply. All routine maintenance can be performed without ladders or stands, and the single-point-refueling receptacle is at chest level in the left wheel nacelle. The A/OA-10 is designed to survive in the very dense anti-aircraft environment of Europe. Most parts, like the engines, control surfaces, wheels and flaps are interchangeable left and right. Nothing behind the nose section has any compound curves, so any damaged panels can be cut from sheet metal and simply bolted on. One-third of a main wing, one vertical stabilizer, one engine, half of the horizontal stabilizer and everything forward of the cockpit can be shot away and the aircraft will still fly.
Notice that it differentiates, saying the OA-10 will do FAC while the A-10 does CAS. Sounds like there is something different in the aircraft. IE, a normal A-10 isn't used in the OA-10 role.
Oh, and here's the Air Force inventory: Inventory: Active force, A-10, 143 and OA-10, 70; Reserve, A-10, 46 and OA-10, 6; ANG, A-10, 84 and OA-10, 18
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: YawningMan on November 17, 2006, 08:09:25 AM
The History Channel did a show that features the Marine Batallion whose Charlie Company took fire from a pair of A-10s.
That was just a bad day, in general, for those Marines, but Charlie had it the worst, by far. They're the only ones who lost vehicles, and only one or two were lost to enemy fire. At least one of their APCs got popped by a Hellfire. I could only imagine if that had been my company.
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: chuckar101 on November 18, 2006, 06:29:38 PM
From what I know of the A-10 the plane was built around the cannon. That's why the nose gear is displaced to the side. There isn't much of a difference between the A-10, and th OA-10. Except that the OA-10 has a different radio package to allow comms between ground and air units. And with the original topic, I've never seen the Blue Angels but I really enjoyed the snowbirds demonstration. The precision with an older aircraft that is built as a trainer just fascinates me.
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: Ted_Stryker on November 22, 2006, 01:03:00 AM
From what I know of the A-10 the plane was built around the cannon. That's why the nose gear is displaced to the side. There isn't much of a difference between the A-10, and th OA-10. Except that the OA-10 has a different radio package to allow comms between ground and air units. And with the original topic, I've never seen the Blue Angels but I really enjoyed the snowbirds demonstration. The precision with an older aircraft that is built as a trainer just fascinates me.
You are correct in your statement that the plane was built around the 30mm cannon in the nose. The plane was designed as a subsonic tank killer, and normally attacks in strafing pairs using depleted uranium rounds that penetrate most armour like a hot knife through defrosted butter.
The armor eluded to in a previous post consists of what is known as "the bathtub", which is a titanium "tub" that shields the pilot seat area. It can take a 30mm round directly during flight to no ill effects. The two huge GE engines provide both redundancy, and power, and the systems on board are designed to take a lot of damage and still function. In fact, A10's have come back from battle with tails practically shot off, tires blown, and more, and still brought the pilot back safe.
Great plane.... and still in service with the U.S. Air Force because, try as they might, nothing else in the arsenal does quite what it can do as capably as it can.
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: switchtech on November 22, 2006, 11:24:00 PM
For all and all, the A-10 is one of my favorites. It was purpose built, functionally perfect for the job it does and by that measure, a beautiful machine.
jbs
Title: Re: USAF Thunderbirds put on a rocking show!
Post by: chuckar101 on November 23, 2006, 06:32:41 AM
I'll agree with you on that one in less than a heartbeat.
