Roost Air Lounge => Aviation related topics => Topic started by: Frank N. O. on November 03, 2006, 07:11:01 PM
Title: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Frank N. O. on November 03, 2006, 07:11:01 PM
I've never actually seen one of these except when window-shopping online in pilot shops like King Schools and Sporty's but what does one write in them, what is required and what extra can one write? I remember an article about this by Lance Wallace where she mentions small notes of person interests, like a scrapbook/diary in short format.
Isn't there also a legal requirement for all licensed pilots to keep a record or is that only for the planes and commercial pilots?
Frank
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 03, 2006, 08:05:16 PM
Hi Frank,
I'll give this a shot, though I'm sure others would explain it better than I. ;) A pilot must keep a written record of whatever flight time is required to meet the requirements for a new certificate, or rating, and also to show he has met recency requirements (currency -- like the number of landings to meet night flight requirements, etc.). You would also record your instrument time, and approaches -- also required to act as Pilot in Command under Instrument Flight Rules. There are other "required" times, also.
Of course, MOST every pilot we know writes down all flight time, because why cut yourself short and only write down what s reqired for the FAA needs? Usually, insurance requirements will be higher than the FAA minimums for certain types of flight... for example, the FAA just requires you to have a tailwheel endorsement, but your insurance company may want to see 25 hours in a certain type of tailwheel airplane before they'll insure you.
Pilots have differing views on whether to write in personal items; I was told by a check ride examiner once, who eyed my boring, spare lines, "You might want to add in some notes there -- some day you'll want to look back and KNOW what you did on this flight." So, I started doing that and was glad... even a little line like "amazing lenticulars all along the Divide" will be enough to immediately remind me of just which flight that was.
I know people with so much flight time ("Chuck, is that you???") that they haven't written any of it down for ages... they keep the bare bones records required to show they're legal, and that's it. Of course, they does NOT apply to some of us peon chickens in the roost!! HA. ;D
I use a home-made sheet for each flight, and then stack them in incredibly messy-looking piles when the season is over. I should join the modern world and find a good electronic logbook, and get it all in one place, but... I'm kinda slow. :D
I hope this sheds a little bit of light on logbooks. I sure hope no one else's looks as disorganized as mine!! ;D ;D
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: switchtech on November 04, 2006, 01:13:04 AM
Here's what I put for a couple of entries while I was in flight training. These are from a DOS Based Database program (Borland Paradox 3.5) printing a report to file of the records in my log book. The text lines up great in a monospace font. But here in HTML on a web page, it's going to be a bit messy. Hopefully you get the flavor, though.
jbs
Record Number: 62
Aircraft Route of Travel # of # of Date Type Ident From To Appr. Land. 6/16/1996 C150 N11515 T89 T82 1
Remarks and Endorsements Part One: Solo Cross Country to Fredericksburg, "Gillespie Co." (T82) [The weather was very nice, if somewhat warm. Clouds cleared away just in time for my slightly late start (1520 UTC instead of 1500 UTC). Found T82 with no trouble.]
Time in Hours for: Aircraft Category And Class Conditions of Flight Flight Single Multi Simulator Engine Engine Class Class Actual Sim. Land Land # 1 #2 Night Instr. Instr. .75
Type of Piloting Time Total Cross As Flt Dual Pilot In Duration Cumulative Country Instctr Receivd Cmd/Solo Of Flight Total Hrs .75 .75 .75 50.55
Record Number: 63
Aircraft Route of Travel # of # of Date Type Ident From To Appr. Land. 6/16/1996 C150 N11515 T82 T89 1
Remarks and Endorsements Part Two: Solo Cross Country, Fredericksburg "Gillespie Co." (T82) to Castroville (T89) via "Commanche Caves Airport" [Started getting bumpy near the end - a mile east of course near Bandera check point. Xponder - > Altitude!]
Time in Hours for: Aircraft Category And Class Conditions of Flight Flight Single Multi Simulator Engine Engine Class Class Actual Sim. Land Land # 1 #2 Night Instr. Instr. 1.25
Type of Piloting Time Total Cross As Flt Dual Pilot In Duration Cumulative Country Instctr Receivd Cmd/Solo Of Flight Total Hrs 1.25 1.25 1.25 51.80
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Baradium on November 04, 2006, 07:35:41 PM
I usually just write in bare bones information. Remarks will be if something noteworthy in aviation use happened. Example, yesterday I shot two ILS approaches for my three landings (6 leg flight*). I'll log my 2 instrument approaches as well as that they were ILS approaches into Deadhorse for runway 7 (went into deadhorse twice due to the nature of the run, Deadhorse is at Prudhoe bay on the north slope, where the oil is). I might also note that both approaches were down to minimums (nitty gritty in this case). Fairbanks, my third landing, was VFR so I shot a visual approach into 19R, but I probobly won't note that. I just make sure I note what my approaches are into so I have exactly what approach I did.
Another note is, I do a page for every log page I use for an aircraft. If it's the same aircraft and captain I use one entry. If I change captains or aircraft I have another one (this means that I have one entry for each page of paperwork company has). If I was doing a cross country flight in a private aircraft, I'd log the entire trip on one page, assuming it happened in the same day (exception being if the day change was while flying or on a very short layover for fuel etc).
I might fly 10 legs in a day, trying to have every leg be it's own logbook entry would make for a whole lot of entries! The downside to doing it that way is that my routing entry ends up being really long with all the places we went.
If something really exciting happens I might write it in, but it depends on what it is. I generally don't write in what I see... but it's such a small space I'd never know what to put anyway. ;)
Generally anything I put in my logbook is something that would be of interest for experience purposes. I try to take pictures for the rest. ;)
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Frank N. O. on November 04, 2006, 11:41:56 PM
Thank you all for the answers, they were just the answers I'd hoped for and proved that my thoughts were in the ballpark :)
Greetings |:)\ Frank
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: spacer on November 05, 2006, 01:05:09 AM
I, uh, wouldn't advise scribbling your Mom's chili recipe in the margins. It can cause some confusion under certain circumstances... :-X
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Ted_Stryker on November 06, 2006, 06:16:38 PM
I keep three copies of my logbook entries. First is the book itself, then it goes into my computer using LogBook Pro, and then that gets backed up, along with scanned pages from my logbook itself, on the computer and archived to read-only DVD's.
As far as what is in the logbook, I put relatively bare-bones entries in the paper logbook, in part due to limited space, but also to prevent any "exciting" or "abnormal" entries being seized upon for "ramp check interviews". No, I don't have anything to hide, but if you do have a situation, for instance with a bad fueling episode that happened to me on my long solo cross-country when I was getting my license, why give details that could cause the FAA to want to grill you about something that's a done deal years later?
I do put full details into the computer files on a given flight or trip, so it's got the most complete info. I put in the normal entries one sees as laid out on the columns, and in remarks on the PC, I note passengers I've flown, routes of travel, notes pertaining to special circumstances that occurred (i.e. "travel around STL TCA in NW corridor at this time of day could cause ATC to reroute me in favor of commercial and take me long way around. Plan for delays and fuel load.")
I have heard other CFI's and CFII's that they like keeping the "exciting" things for another log unless an emergency or ATC involvement occurred, again to avoid possible unnecessary FAA grilling over non-events.
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Herk Fixer on November 07, 2006, 03:26:46 PM
I tend to be quite minimalist when it comes to my logbook. I'll scribble a thing or two about the flight to jar my memory (which often needs jarring! :) ) I keep a regular paper log, an Excel spreadsheet as a backup, and I use an online log called LogShare in case I need to look up something when I'm not at home: http://www.logshare.com/log.jsp?email=herk2362@sbcglobal.net
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Frank N. O. on November 09, 2006, 07:44:21 PM
Thanks for the replies :)
So, one log book for the FAA and another duplicate with added personal notes in relation to memorable moments or such for private use.
Is there a std. type of log book or will any pilot shop logbook do?
Frank
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Baradium on November 09, 2006, 08:33:55 PM
So, one log book for the FAA and another duplicate with added personal notes in relation to memorable moments or such for private use.
Is there a std. type of log book or will any pilot shop logbook do?
Frank
If you want to do it that way, I never made anything other than the official logbook. An unofficial one could be a liability btw. ;) I don't make any notations that I'm not willing to talk about if queried (although I also tend to avoid flying that I'm not willing to talk about as well).
There are different styles of logbooks. My first logbook was a much smaller one, I recently actually filled that one up (scary huh?) and went to a larger logbook. Generally for recreational flying, a small logbook (standard pilot log) will probobly cover you for a long time. The larger books may have more collumns for different type of data as well.
For example: I now also record part 135 and part 121 flight time, when I first started flying those were two collumns I didn't need. I also record SIC (second in command) time, which I didn't need to at first either. If you don't ever want to fly professionally, you don't need collumns for that. However, if you plan to eventually, you might choose to get a larger book. Also note that the larger book takes up more space and the smaller books will have areas for endoresments for flight training and other initial flying, which can be easier for your CFI when you are doing solo flights (note that this probobly doesn't matter overseas, unless the book is different, as the wording for endorsements is likely different).
Look through a few logbooks and decide what you'd like for collumns. Any logbook will work, some just have more "options" than others. And you don't neccesarilly need to pay for a "fully loaded" one.
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Ted_Stryker on November 09, 2006, 08:51:06 PM
So, one log book for the FAA and another duplicate with added personal notes in relation to memorable moments or such for private use.
Is there a std. type of log book or will any pilot shop logbook do?
Frank
There are certain basic columns in any logbook, but styles and types can vary. For instance, Cessna puts out a basic logbook that is fine for student and private pilots, and collects just the basic info, and has room for endorsements from flight instructors necessary as you conduct your training. Yes, that's one of the other things one finds in a log book is an endorsement from a flight instructor with limitations and annotations as one gets ready for solo, and then cross country flights, and also prior to taking the checkride. Additionally, BFR's (Biennial Flight Reviews) are annotated there, as are endorsements for additional qualifications (i.e. tailwheel, complex, etc.).
You will find that styles of logbooks differ based on who prints them, but also if they are designed for student/private versus commercial and even airline use. As one gets into more involved forms of flying, one wants to start tracking additional time types over and above the basic stuff. This is necessary for reporting on forms for keeping, or even obtaining, a job as a commercial or ATP pilot. For instance, one will want to track time as SIC versus PIC, Turbine versus non-Turbine, just by way of possible combinations. One of the reasons I use LogbookPro for my computer version of my records is that I can break down reports on time by everything logged, even by individual airplane, or model of plane, etc.
A pilot's logbook is so valuable because it serves as the legal record of qualifications and experience that the FAA uses to determine readiness, capability, and compliance with various regulations regarding experience and training.
If you want to look at what is considered the "gold standard" logbook format, look at a Jeppesen logbook for a given type (private, commercial, atp, etc.), and you'll be looking at what most people use today.
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 09, 2006, 11:57:36 PM
A quick question off the main subject: How do you like LogbookPro?? I need to get modern, and don't know which way to go. Thanks!!
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: happylanding on November 16, 2006, 11:25:08 PM
I usually have to write: 1. acft ident 2. type of acft 3. dep airport 4. arrival airport 5. number of landings (day(/night) 6. the flight time is then divided into SEP/MEP and DUAL/NOT DUAL (I do not remember the right word!) and DAY/NIGHT 7. in the RMK case I usually write what I did (say if it was an alpine flight, AC, lessons or if it was a peculiar flight (e.g. first solo was written occupying 3 cases :) and on my last flight with my former it was written it had not been a nice flight at all, with some ----ehm say --- "quite colourful" expressions!) and if do something interesting, or the weather condition is interesting or well, things alike. ;) I hope I've not forgotten anything! :)
Oh yes: the name of the pilot: self if it's me, or whatever else.
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: FB41 on November 17, 2006, 03:21:13 PM
I'm a minimalist when it comes to logging. I write down the flight info on a scrap of paper and then transcribe it to an electronic logbook (DSSLog). the e-logbook is backed up monthly and I print a copy for quick reference.
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Mike on November 17, 2006, 09:39:25 PM
I know people with so much flight time ("Chuck, is that you???") that they haven't written any of it down for ages... they keep the bare bones records required to show they're legal, and that's it. Of course, they does NOT apply to some of us peon chickens in the roost!! HA. ;D
I use a home-made sheet for each flight, and then stack them in incredibly messy-looking piles when the season is over. I should join the modern world and find a good electronic logbook, and get it all in one place, but... I'm kinda slow. :D
I hope this sheds a little bit of light on logbooks. I sure hope no one else's looks as disorganized as mine!! ;D ;D
I think I've got you beat, mom! My "pilot-shop-bought" logbook ends somewhere 5 years ago. I meant to transfer my time into it since then but "just haven't got around to it"..... (yeah yeah . . . ::) ) It ended somewhere aroun 3000hrs after all ratings were done, insurance requirements were met and no mor primary students were tought . . .
My logbook is my little "Smokey Calendar" and I transfer that into my 135 records for duty times. But I do keep track of how many landings, buckets, long-lines, and which fires I have flown......
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 18, 2006, 03:10:32 AM
Yeah, I remember that little Smokey Calendar.... it's the one that had no WHITE of the PAGES showing, because you had so many FIRES written in there!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
I'm sure glad you WORK for a living, because then people like you make up for people like me!!! Tee hee!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D
:D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Mike on November 18, 2006, 05:45:28 AM
Yeah, I remember that little Smokey Calendar.... it's the one that had no WHITE of the PAGES showing, because you had so many FIRES written in there!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
I'm sure glad you WORK for a living, because then people like you make up for people like me!!! Tee hee!!!
Uhm...yeah....
If you're implying that I am STILL on fires even though we're nearing Thanksgiving . . . .
. . . I gotta say: It all helps paying for the boat !!!! ;) ;D ::)
HA HA (just trying to cheer myself up....)
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Baradium on November 21, 2006, 04:48:11 AM
I spent 10 of the hours I was in the pensacola airport the other day to work on my logbook. Had flights in my paper logs not in the electronic yet (flights in the middle actually, before I started using the logbook but hadn't gotten to yet by adding from the beginning) and many flights in the electronic not in the paper (had to start the new book as well). I finally got it all together and then had to find out why they disagreed. Between finding misplaced decimals in the electronic and bad math on my part in the paper it was "fun." ;)
On the other hand it feels good that they are updated. I don't ever want to let them get behind again though! Spending a full working day just on logbook stuff gets old pretty darn quick.
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Ted_Stryker on November 21, 2006, 04:56:51 PM
A quick question off the main subject: How do you like LogbookPro?? I need to get modern, and don't know which way to go. Thanks!!
Just wanted to apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I have been running around like a chi... uhm... wait... better not use that one on here ;D ;D ;D
Anyway, I liike LogbookPro quite a bit! It's got great functionality for printing out currency reporting, hour breakdowns, and customized reporting capacity. It also has great features like the Route Browser which can scan your logbook entries and plot your routes you've flown, and also can syncronize with a Palm Pilot or PocketPC. The pro version has a feature option that can let you load an applet on your Palm OS or PocketPC device to record log entries while out and about. Then you can simply plug in your handheld device, run your Sync program (HotSync for Palm, ActiveSync for PocketPC) and your logbook entries from the handheld are pulled into your pc and things get updated automatically. It also lets me keep tabs of things like medical and bfr checks, etc. Well worth the price! And if you need support, they are very responsive.
Hope this helps... and sorry about the delay in getting back to you.
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 24, 2006, 12:26:20 AM
Thank you so much -- I know what you mean about time flying by.
I appreciate the info on this. I need to get caught up! Currently I keep my insurance forms the most current, and then build on those, using a pretty messy system. It works, but not well! Heh heh. ;)
It sounds like the tracking currency stuff would be a piece of cake using a sytem like this. Thanks much!!!!!! 8)
Title: Re: What is written in the Pilots Log and Record book?
Post by: Baradium on November 24, 2006, 04:29:26 AM
Thank you so much -- I know what you mean about time flying by.
I appreciate the info on this. I need to get caught up! Currently I keep my insurance forms the most current, and then build on those, using a pretty messy system. It works, but not well! Heh heh. ;)
It sounds like the tracking currency stuff would be a piece of cake using a sytem like this. Thanks much!!!!!! 8)
It makes it real easy. You can view currency stuff on the bottom of the screen as you work on the logbook. The problem is you actually have to be keeping it up to date for it to work. ;)
After the time it was to catch mine up, I'm going to do my best to keep mine updated now...
You can also program other currency items such as medicals, BFRs (IIRC) etc. IIRC you can get alerts as you approach the limit as well.
