Chicken Wings Forum

Roost Air Lounge => The Classroom => Topic started by: Mike on October 24, 2010, 10:15:55 PM

Title: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2010, 10:15:55 PM
Ok, here is a new question for you guys, I hope you can help me with this:

Do you know what a vehicle wrap is?
I attached a picture to be sure we're all talking about the same thing....

Can one do a vehicle wrap on an airplane?
Are there any legal issues with it?

It would go on the fuselage and tail, not so much on the wings. And I don't think aerodynamically there is an issue with it.
Just not sure about FAA and W&B, even though we can weigh it again after paint and wrap.....
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 25, 2010, 06:39:08 AM
What are you going to paint and wrap, Mike?  Panaca Jane, or Big Mama?  Sure sounds like an interesting project, please keep us informed!

RC
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: MasonKR on October 25, 2010, 02:08:50 PM
I know there is a 206 by me that has a decal wrap on it for the local casino.  That is the only one I have ever seen.  Albeit its not as extensive as the picture you posted, but it is done in vinyl seems to have held up so far.

-Kyle
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Oddball on October 25, 2010, 03:53:02 PM
Used to do that sort of think when I worked for a sign company on cars,buses,lorries and mobile cranes with wraps printed off a big digital printer onto vinyl, but never tried on aircraft envn though I have heard about companies that do it.
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Mike on October 25, 2010, 04:16:06 PM
We're thinking of a "Chicken Wings" Cessna 175. Not sure what exact design it's gonna be....

But I really want to make sure there are no legal issues first.
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Oddball on October 25, 2010, 04:28:08 PM
been looking into this for you Mike and found a forum thread at  http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/forum/home-built-kits/44719-aircraft-graphics.html about it. and so far have not came across any legal issues, I suppose you could contact the FAA about it.
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: MasonKR on October 25, 2010, 04:34:34 PM
I called the FSDO and was told they can't see any problems as long as it doesn't restrict the pilots vision in any way

-Kyle
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: BrianGMFS on October 27, 2010, 09:37:30 AM
It wasn't applied to an airworthy plane but the VT Air Guard did a wrap on their decommissioned ground trainer a few years ago...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3117588261_ea194a2750.jpg)
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Jupiter on October 27, 2010, 11:27:27 AM
From my point of view as an aerospace student, I think it should't give any problems as long as the pilots vision isn't hindered in any way, and the wrap is properly attached. (Partial) detaching of the decal results in FOD, as well as possibly having aerodynamic consequences. On the fuselage this shouldn't pose any major problems, but on the tail it could theoretically do a little more damage (control/stabilising surface, so more aerodynamically sensitive, as well as having possibly jammable moving parts).
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Mike on October 27, 2010, 05:48:42 PM
thanks for the input guys!

It's looking pretty good for a "go" then, huh?!!

I still worry a little that some FAA guy will have an issue with it. I have learned that every FSDO is different and they interpret the rules differently as well........  ::thinking:: ::sulk::
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Jupiter on October 27, 2010, 05:58:45 PM
Well, if you really want to be a hundred percent sure, send the FAA an email or give them a call... Wouldn;t know how approachable these guys are over there in the states, but here in the netherlands, you can just call em and you'll eventually get an answer...
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Oddball on October 27, 2010, 05:59:20 PM
Well by the looks of it as look as its the approved stuff for A/C and not motor vehicles, not covering canopies,showing your A/C registration and not restricting control surface movment you are good to go, but I reckon the company you go to should give you the advice you need, I know I had to go through the pros and cons of the diffrent type of vinyls we stocked with customers.
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Baradium on October 27, 2010, 08:52:39 PM
I don't see any relevent FARs at this point dealing with vinyl.

So far it seems that a lot of airliners with full body graphics are actually using vinyl like you're asking about.   Both these companies seem to do this kind of work:

http://www.adhetec.com/MENUAVIA-1325000010-cat-2.html?gclid=CNr05Lfu86QCFQy8KgodiS82iQ

http://www.signindustry.com/installation/articles/2008-07-01-Wrapping_airplanes_Aircraft_with_vinyl_graphics.php3


I assume you are trying to avoid the cost or work involved if you were to have it painted or mask and paint it yourself.

It looks like what you want to do is a well established practice these days.  The second site references Cirrus as doing this on production aircraft, but I did not find any references to full wraps on their site.  With so many airplanes already out there with this kind of thing,  I don't see any issues with going forward with it.  Of course, if you are good at painting and masking, you could always do that as well.

The big consideration you'd have would be keeping registration markings visible and discernible.  I expect the wings and horizontal stab are best avoided, but those companies should be able to give you some good information about it.   There shouldn't be any problems with the fuselage or vertical stabilizer as far as I can see.

I'd like to add that you probably won't be able to get away with the windshield or front windows being covered, but you probably guessed that already since you can't do that with cars either.
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Baradium on October 27, 2010, 09:08:42 PM
More sources:

http://adnormous.com/vehicle-wraps-advertising.asp

http://www.aviationgraphix.com/home.php

http://www.aerographics.com/

http://www.appliedprodco.com/

Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Turbomallard on October 28, 2010, 12:46:49 AM
Huh. I think this would be considered just another paint scheme, so I would think that the regs for that apply. I don't know much about this, but there are some areas in which the paint can be critical, most likely in aileron balance-- I'd want to look into that. Otherwise there are some regs about N numbers having to be readable and not in some fancy scheme. They also have to be horizontal, I think... there was a Kodaiak on display at OSH this year that had its N number vertically on the tail and that's a no-no, apparently. See Joe Norris's column here (he also lists the FARs that talk about this): http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2010-02_tales.asp

TM
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Frank N. O. on November 11, 2010, 05:30:32 AM
Danish TV2's morning show recently had a dane who won a international wrapping championship and it was said that he also wrapped the TV2 News-helicopter in vinyls so at least the danish authorities SLV approve of it.
http://www.flyfreak.dk/foto/img37.htm

Frank
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Cpt. Blade on December 01, 2010, 03:53:38 PM
Well, the Brazilian based Artfix Digital & Screen Printing is specialized in making custom addhesive wrapping for aircraft, and they do it since 1995. All the aircraft below, for exemple, feature many paint details that aren't actually painted, but wrapped:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Rio-Sul-%28Varig%29/Boeing-737-76Q/0583070/&sid=8884a0ac31e2671ed664b5793a8e294f - the measuring tape was wrapped around it.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Varig/McDonnell-Douglas-MD-11/1318935/&sid=0fc6b298af9da9575e8d0a4f1ad9e048 - the entire scheme was wrapped.

Also, Embraer often works together with Artfix.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Caraibes/Embraer-ERJ-170-200LR-175LR/1167138/&sid=779c47680fce6e45dd38006b89c4d16a - this entire paintscheme is addhesive wrapping.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Embraer/Embraer-ERJ-190-100LR-190LR/1189918/&sid=74708b69861efba7aa3189adbdd0af50 - this E-jet was used in a demo flight around the world, and the "map" on the fuselage was wrapped.

Also, this Cathay 747: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pacific-Airways/Boeing-747-467/0450634/&sid=85eac4c7b1968f729617f8648d7f6dc3 - the decals were all wrapped.

I know it's a fairly common practice, specially for promotional purposes, or even to save costs and time (the case of the Air Cara´bes above), since companies claim that wrapping addhesives on an aircraft is much faster than actually painting it. The downside is that the addhesive might not have the same durability of normal painting.
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: undatc on December 07, 2010, 06:12:09 AM
The only thing I could think of, and maybe this was covered already, is if in some way shape or form detracts from the readability of the N number.  The FSDO might frown on that.
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: Mike on December 08, 2010, 01:00:38 AM
Yeah, we did think about that. Don't even want mess with any grey areas....

The idea so far is to have a Chuck and a Julio on the vertical stab. We may not even mess with the rudder.
And then we'll leave the N-Number alone on the fuselage and on the front cowling we'll have Julio fix something or apply duct tape (maybe we can get sponsored from them as well  ;) )
Title: Re: aircraft paint job question
Post by: TheSoccerMom on December 08, 2010, 03:53:05 AM
That would SO COOL with them on the tail....    ::bow::

I hope you find someone who has all the scoop...  I wouldn't think it would be too hard!   ;)

 ::bow::
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