Roost Air Lounge => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mike on February 09, 2010, 01:05:07 AM
Title: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Mike on February 09, 2010, 01:05:07 AM
Imagine us in aviation react to an AD the way the media and the public are right now with the "Gas Pedal AD" Toyota just came out?! ;-) Our planes and helicopters would never fly! How about the aviation approach: Check the serial number to see if you are affected. Practice the emergency procedure until the fix comes out. Then fix it, or replace the part with the new part number. Carry on. It seems so simple. (for once the FAA seems more reasonable than the media) I remember Cessna had some sort of an issue with their pedals and/or brakes at one point with their 172's or 152's. No big deal, right?! I think I will keep driving my Toyota in the meantime. Oh! And never mind the fact that most middle-lane-drivers I encounter on my travels between CA and NV seem to have the brake pedal stuck, not the gas pedal!
Just wanted to get that of my chest!
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Oddball on February 09, 2010, 08:03:04 AM
Having the same trouble here Mike with Toyota. Last week the Head of Toyota UK was on the BBC breakfast news programme showing what the trouble was and how its going to be fixed for the accelerator pedal and now we find out about the brakes, think I'll stick to my Punto and Land Rover Series 3 ;D
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 09, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
First off, my condolences for those who were killed.
However, I don't understand how come this is Toyota's fault and they are recalling all these cars when it quickly came out that the floormattes that was the problem were put there by the rental company from a completely different car-model, and that the rental company had been warned by a previous driver of the car that there was a problem with that, he didn't crash though. Other things they reported made more sense for a recall but was not related to the throttle-pedal, it was the car's braking-system. I think they said the car's brakes were not hydralic but electronic and the electronics on that car was made to disable braking-force when both the brake and throttle pedal was depressed, why would anyone design it like that? That the engine is controlled not by a turn-key but an electronic button which had to be depressed for several seconds before switching the engine off again is another dumb design idea imho.
I find it insane that cars (like the one in the crash) have electronic braking-systems where the brake-pedal just operate a potentiometer, just like pedals you can buy for racing gomes on your pc or game-console. A normal passenger car imho have no use for such electronic braking-systems apart from help by systems like ABS and EBD (electronic brake-force distribution), I mean you don't have fly-by-wire on a Cessna 150 either do you? And it used to be mandatory that cars had to have mechanical links for the brakes and steering to get type-approval in Europe, but several cars now use brake-by-wire systems, and I even heard some cars have steering-system that can allow the ESP-systems to turn the front-wheels away from where the steeringwheel is.
Frank
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: TheSoccerMom on February 09, 2010, 09:12:49 PM
HAH!
Good point, Mike -- but just imagine if the general public actually understood aircraft maintenance! ;D
They'd all be running around in circles, screaming "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
I think sometimes we forget we're dealing with machinery....
:D
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Baradium on February 16, 2010, 07:04:47 PM
Frank: A number of today's cars have more electronics and computer coding than the A-380, 777, or 787.
As far as toyota and getting blamed... apparently there were reports of this problem for a long time, but they were ignoring them until that one crash that caught the media attention. At that point the fire was started before toyota had done anything. So from behind behind the media to it coming out that they actually knew about it makes a bad reputation on their end.
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2010, 07:09:41 PM
at least Toyotas don't catch on fire when hooked to ground power !! c ;) ::whistle::
see http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/forum/index.php?topic=2192.0 (http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/forum/index.php?topic=2192.0) ::rofl::
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Baradium on February 16, 2010, 07:28:07 PM
Never said I was the biggest fan of the CRJ.
Apparently it was a malfunctioning ground power unit that sent over 1000volts to the airplane. The airplane isn't supposed to accept power that isn't within spec, but for some reason it did. That or it was such high voltage that it didn't matter that it didn't "accept" the power, and the fire was caused in circuits for the protection determination...
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: BrianGMFS on February 17, 2010, 12:43:03 AM
Toyota has had lots of problems the last couple of years. Ask any Tundra or FJ Cruiser owner about the recall to replace the FRAMES on their trucks because in the rust belt, the frames corroded so quickly that the trucks became structurally unsound within a year or two of driving in the salt.
I know of a crash locally of a Toyota Minivan that reportedly had a stuck throttle and in the effort to avoid hitting stopped traffic, the van ended up on it's side through the side wall of a garage (Told to me by the Fire Chief)
To show the attitude Toyota was putting forward, when they first said, "Pull the floor mats". Everyone did. And the accident's kept happening. On another forum I'm on (for mostly motorheads) one poster said he had the throttle stick wide open on his mother's Corrola. He got it stopped safely and then could not reproduce the stuck throttle. He drove it to the dealer and they told him the throttle stuck because he was wearing work boots while driving!!!
They actually blamed his boots. The problem Toyota seems to have, is blaming the customer and ignoring the real problem because they think their engineering can't be wrong. An arrogant "We can't possibly mess up so it's the customer's fault" attitude.
Ain't just the Prius' having problems. the same system is used in most of their current line up.
Toyota isn't the only one with problems. Had to take the Girlfriend's Ford Windstar in for a recall on the cruise control. Seems that if brake fluid drips into the relay for the cruise, it can cause a fire. Covered a lot of years too. I got a notice for my 94 Taurus (that I junked two years ago) and Rose's 98 Windstar.
All cars have recalls at some point. It's just Toyota's company policy of "We're perfect" causing all the ruckus. I remember the recall back in the early 90's for all the police package Chevy Caprices that had the ABS system, disable the brakes sometimes due to RF interference. Guess what's in every police car.... A radio. Had a few cruisers in my area bite the bullet because of that.
Brian
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Oddball on February 17, 2010, 11:08:29 AM
Bit like BMW just now blaming the customer for bad driving and breaking the wheel hubs on their run flats.
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: gibbo_335 on February 18, 2010, 12:33:56 AM
::wave:: Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth ( ::banghead:: even though we don't have 2 cent pieces here any more)
I worked in the motor industry for nearly 20yrs ::eek:: and worked on all types of dealership vehicles. SAAB, Citroen, Peugeot, Volvo, Renault, Suzuki, Mercs, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover AND Toyota! The SHEAR number of recalls I have performed on cars and 4WDs over the years is staggering!!! I'm not sure why everyone is knee jerking over Toyota at the moment, probably because the press likes cutting down the sucessful companys when they get a chance...point in case, poor QANTAS over the past 2 or so years :-\ ! AT least Toyota are addmitting they have a problem and are fixing it FREE OF CHARGE!
MOST (not all) recalls are due to very small numbers that have suffered a failure and the facory can reproduce ithe fault, so they fix it. This Toyota recall of the throttle cable, isn't the worst thing I have seen over the years, lets take one Swedish (won't say which one) manufacturers issue with their Cruise Control staying armed even after it was switched off on the master switch....theres a fun ride ::unbelieveable:: ! AND we won't start on Land Rover or Jaguar...SHHHhhhesssch. But did the drivers handle the failure and get it in hand at the time? NO, they tried the brakes, "It just wouldn't stop!!" UMMMmm, Did you try and turn the ignition switch off? mmmmm ::thinking:: Most car drivers have no clue what to do in an emergency situation, it's something that isn't taught at initial driver training.... Imagine if they didn't go over Emergency Situations and Proceedures in flight school ::eek:: . Every manufacturer has issue which just about every make and model. The more and more features people want in their new car the more and more complicated they get, weird stuff is gunna happen!
People treat their cars like nothing can or will go wrong, it is a bit of machinery people! I won't start on poor maintenance ::sulk:: I do feel a bit sorry for Toyota (even though I own a Mitsubishi >:D ... of which, I will mention HAS actually had a recall, but I didn't run to the hills screaming!! ) they had one of the best reputations in the car industry in general worldwide, now the press have their claws out for them it may get worse before it gets better.
RANT over ok back to the FUN!!! ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking::
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: TheSoccerMom on February 18, 2010, 12:58:10 AM
Yeah, good points Gibby... I think it's kind of funny how we treat aircraft and vehicles as if they're not both just machinery.
It always makes me laugh when people think it "so scary!" if I go somewhere in an 18-year-old truck, but it's just "so cool" if I fly an 60-year-old airplane.
Hunh??!? ::)
And at 18 years and 3 months, I'm still waiting for the first complaint on my Toyota.... ::whistle::
;)
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: gibbo_335 on February 18, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
It always makes me laugh when people think it "so scary!" if I go somewhere in an 18-year-old truck, but it's just "so cool" if I fly an 60-year-old airplane.
Hunh??!? ::)
And at 18 years and 3 months, I'm still waiting for the first complaint on my Toyota.... ::whistle::
;)
BUT surely nothing will go wrong with an aeroplane :o
HA HA yeah I actually also own a 1986 Toyota Corolla ( ;D It's my PILOT car) , if the throttle stuck on it not much would happen 'cause it doesn't go fast enough to hurt yourself in :P
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Mike on February 18, 2010, 02:52:17 AM
I wonder if the big US auto companies "might" have something to do with the negative hype over Toyota.. ::thinking:: ::thinking:: ::whistle::
Hitting the biggest player hard may bring new opportunity for freshly bailed out companies.... ::whistle::
BTW: I also think it's funny how people drive 15 year old cars with 220,000 miles on it as fast as they can go on the freeway with underinflated tires and with squeeky brakes, expecting them to be as safe as the day they bought them, with 8000 idiots on the road all around them but yet they are too scared to climb into an airliner built in 2004 driven by professionals. ;D
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: gibbo_335 on February 18, 2010, 03:08:33 AM
BTW: I also think it's funny how people drive 15 year old cars with 220,000 miles on it as fast as they can go on the freeway with underinflated tires and with squeeky brakes, expecting them to be as safe as the day they bought them, with 8000 idiots on the road all around them but yet they are too scared to climb into an airliner built in 2004 driven by professionals. ;D
Nice point Mike!! :D
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: gibbo_335 on February 18, 2010, 11:12:19 PM
OK, here is a report from todays Brisneyland news paper on Vehicle recalls last year and this year, these are by manufacturer and the numbers are SEPERATE recalls per make!!! OH and Australian recalls only not World wide
2009 Citroen - 12 ::eek:: Mercedes-Benz - 9 Volvo - 6 Peugeot and Nissan - 5 each Ford, Land Rover and Mitsubishi - 4 each Jaguar - 3 ( ;) they must be getting better, I'll try and find some Jag specs from the 90's ) Toyota, Audi, Fiat, Honda and Maserati - 2 each (ONLY 2 from Toyota...wheres this BIG issue that is dogging them? ::whistle:: ) Alfa, Chrysler, Holden (Aussie GM), Hyundai, Jeep, Kia, Ferrari, Great Wall, Renault, Subaru and Suzuki - 1 each
2010 Toyota - 1 Mitsubishi - 1 Ford SUVs - 1 Holden - 1 Honda -2
So with Honda having 2 recalls already this year where is the huge public outcry??? Poor Toyota
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Lt.Fubar on February 20, 2010, 02:04:46 PM
It is actually quite interesting that during the few years of studying I heard many times about Toyota company as a example of an attitude toward engineering and management. All of them good and inspiring.
One such story is about the beginning of one seasoned manager at one of new US branches of Toyota. The bosses from Japan came to a meeting, so he prepared a typical for western company presentation about how awesome his division is, and how much money it made. When he finished the CEO said: "Listen, we know you are good, that's why you got the job. We are not here to hear about your successes, tell us about your problems."
Other is about the production line, that every employee can stop if he/she notice any design problem with the product. And so on...
If only Boeing was working like that... ::)
Actually only thing that is stopping me from buying a Toyota is... they don't make rear wheel drive sedans ::banghead::
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: BrianGMFS on February 21, 2010, 02:59:59 PM
Quote
Actually only thing that is stopping me from buying a Toyota is... they don't make rear wheel drive sedans
That's why I drive a Mercury Grand Marquise..... And even take it to car shows.
When I was on the highway awhile back, an American drove by with the license plate "BRWNCOAT" or to that effect. And around his plate was one of those License plate things (It's early) which read "My other car is a FIREFLY" Brian was this you?
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: BrianGMFS on February 22, 2010, 04:20:15 AM
Nope.. Not me. But I do have this decal on the back window....
Heard couple of days ago the Vauxhaul are now recalling some of thier off roaders due to a steering problem.
Wait 'til Mr. Clarkson gets hold of that ::eek::
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Fabo on August 17, 2010, 10:41:35 AM
Just came to a video of slovak car-magazine trying to stop two different toyotas with throttle wide-open. Commentary is in Slovak, but video is quite self explanatory.
Just came to a video of slovak car-magazine trying to stop two different toyotas with throttle wide-open. Commentary is in Slovak, but video is quite self explanatory.
BRATISLAVA. Toyota alleged problems with the gas pedal stuck to a source of excuses drivers. The modern American hysteria as dangerous based on the Toyota car, suitable for excuses.
If you measured the high-speed police or accident, gee jammed the gas pedal. We investigated whether the accidents are drivers of Toyota vehicles in higher retirement age, or why it suddenly started from one moment to spoil all of Toyota's long-evaluated as the most reliable.
Dokonca us not interested or that car in the spirit of his own philosophy, and escaped the challenge of acknowledging correct possible failures. We also does not matter whether Toyota will reimburse or not reimburse customers petrol minute journey into the service. It seems absurd to us, if someone claims that a car with gas on the floor can not be stopped. We looked where is the truth.
Title: Re: Toyota AD !!
Post by: Fabo on August 17, 2010, 05:25:30 PM
Just came to a video of slovak car-magazine trying to stop two different toyotas with throttle wide-open. Commentary is in Slovak, but video is quite self explanatory.
Not a bad idea actually. Now for something less machiney :)
BRATISLAVA. Toyota alleged problems with the gas pedal became a source of excuses for drivers. From the modern American hysteria, Toyota comes as dangerous car, suitable for excuses.
If you are caught speeding, or have an accident, blame the jammed gas pedal. We did not investigate, whether the accidents are had by drivers of Toyota vehicles in retirement age, or why Toyotas, long-time reliability favourites, started spoiling.
It even did not matter, that the carmaker accepted responsibility in the spirit of their philosophy, and did the recall. It also does not matter whether Toyota will reimburse or not customers for petrol used for journey into the service. It seems absurd to us, that someone claims that a car with gas on the floor can not be stopped. We looked where is the truth.
