Roost Air Lounge => The Classroom => Topic started by: spacer on April 07, 2009, 01:42:07 AM
Title: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: spacer on April 07, 2009, 01:42:07 AM
I was out on the ramp filming landings in a nasty crosswind, and... well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOeAGSjpytg
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Fabo on April 07, 2009, 04:07:00 AM
Just like you said, aw crap! :o
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 07, 2009, 04:30:10 AM
Oh no!!
That makes me want to :'( !
:'(
:(
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: G-man on April 07, 2009, 04:42:43 AM
I am assuming he survived, therefore, tough though it may sound--he/she learned their lesson the hard way. I have no sympathy for those that choose to fly in those type of conditions without a good reason. I am guessing that the flight had no commercial purpose, I.E. life flight, fire police etc. What happens is, those who work in emergency services get to clean up the mess, luckily it was at the airport and so their risk was minimised.
Guess I am in a pissy mood tonight huh?? I'll prolly end up editing this post tomorrow..
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: TheSoccerMom on April 07, 2009, 04:59:58 AM
Ah, don't know about the pissy mood, G-Man.... I just want to cry for that pretty (ugly) little airplane....
You're right... 36 knots, is that what it was? Hmmm.... one helluva crosswind even for a machine that doesn't sit up like a milkstool.... ::sulk::
I hear ya...
A local pilot just showed me her pretty (ugly) little Tri-pacer last weekend here -- spotless and shiny and tucked in a dry hangar.... it just makes me sad to see a nice airplane tossed away, like you said, for no reason.
:(
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Oddball on April 07, 2009, 09:02:02 AM
what the.....? :o
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on April 07, 2009, 02:21:06 PM
Quote
Guess I am in a pissy mood tonight huh?? I'll prolly end up editing this post tomorrow..
As you are fond of saying G-man, "It'd be rude not to." Hehe. ;) :P
On second thought... please leave your post up. You pretty much hit the nail on the head IMHO.
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: G-man on April 07, 2009, 03:13:09 PM
As you are fond of saying G-man, "It'd be rude not to." Hehe. ;) :P On second thought... please leave your post up. You pretty much hit the nail on the head IMHO.
Yep, guess I did huh---the post will stay.. ::whistle:: ::whistle::
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: spacer on April 07, 2009, 03:38:31 PM
When the FAA and NTSB came a'calling, they brought the Official weather report from the time of the accident, which the pilot had checked before attempting his takeoff. It was showing winds topping off at just over 20. Waaaaaaay below what I was getting on our Unicom's weather station. I wasn't letting anyone have our airplanes that day at all, save for our instructors... one of whom gets off on this sort of weather.
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Frank N. O. on April 07, 2009, 04:13:36 PM
Man, that was scary! Shouldn't the person have been able to feel walking to the plane, and even sitting in it, that the winds were way too strong, possibly stronger than listed on the weather info? Was that weather even measure at the airport or somewhere else?
Question to the experienced pilots and CFIs: Would it have made a difference if it was a low-wing airplane of the same size/weight, say a Tomahawk?
Frank
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: spacer on April 07, 2009, 05:14:23 PM
I think maybe experience was a factor here. One of our instructors was flying a tomahawk in that weather, and while he used the term "sporty" to describe the winds, he didn't seem horribly concerned. The pilot of the Cherokee 140 which landed right before the incident made it fine, though he was a bit nervous afterward. He told me he'd had "enough of this for today", and left after I showed him the video. The Cessna you see crossing the screen early in the video had also just landed, and while it was interesting to watch, he was able to plant the airplane firmly and without any problem.
I have a little more information about the accident, and what happened, but I don't think I should talk about it until the FAA and NTSB are done with their stuff.
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Chopper Doc on April 08, 2009, 04:11:11 AM
I worked at an airport where an old gent kept his 152. Once in a windy day he'd show up and hover-land that thing into a howling wind. It looked all wrong, hanging up there without forward motion and with the wings all stiff and such. I mean, if God had intended aircraft to hover, he'd have made their wings go round and round.
Oh wait...
On another tack, I built a Zenair 701 that would take off (solo) without wind in under 25' and land in under 75 (shorter, if I STOL'd it in). If I had a 20kt headwind I could take off with the brakes locked.
Yes, Soccer Mom, I fly fixed wing, but I'm not takin' back all those pot-shots at the welded-wing crowd: that's all my best material there.
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: spacer on April 08, 2009, 04:14:50 AM
With a 701 you coulda taken off across the runway. ;D
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Chopper Doc on April 08, 2009, 04:20:13 AM
Yeah, Spacer, with the whole vertical tail being a control surface, by the time you ran out of rudder authority you had enough wind you could land across the strip. A 620 pound aircraft with 115hp and a gross of 1240. Designed for ultimate loads of +6, -3, rugged as hell (designed by a former de Havilland engineer), and easy to maintain. Only thing it wouldn't do is go faster than a good horse.
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: tundra_flier on May 08, 2009, 01:06:20 AM
Actually it looked to me like he was using too much down elevator to try and keep it planted and wheel barrowed it. The fact that he was able to taxi out without problem seems to indicated he could have gotten airborn without problem. As for the wind velocity a couple of the wind socks in the video weren't fully extented to horizontal, that seems to indicate the wind was under 15kts at least part of the time.
Phil
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: spacer on May 08, 2009, 02:47:52 AM
It was dipping below 12kts, and gusting to 36, according to our unicom weather station.
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: tundra_flier on May 08, 2009, 03:21:15 AM
OK, that makes more sense. I'd be checking my tie downs not taking off in that kind of weather. ::eek:: Time to go home and check the weather again in 8 hours. ::drinking::
Phil
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: 4X-NTY on May 11, 2009, 03:31:21 PM
oh... the 701... "flying bread boxes"... i see them quite alot lately. and why the video is down? youtube says that the author removed it. and about crosswinds,i once had a talk with an ultra light pilot who is flying Tecnam p-92 and Maxair drifter,i asked him what he would do if he was low on fuel and he would need to cancel takeoff cause of wind,he told me "why cancel landind when you can turn the bird towards the wind and bring it down like a helicopter?"
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: G-man on May 11, 2009, 03:42:20 PM
It was dipping below 12kts, and gusting to 36, according to our unicom weather station.
Just to throw this out there--the limit set by the USFS for cancelling our missions is 50kts. ::unbelieveable:: ::unbelieveable::
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: spacer on May 14, 2009, 05:26:40 AM
We have a few know-it-all jerks at our airport, and one of 'em lost control of his airplane a couple weeks ago. A really nice black-and-white Decathlon Scout. He set it down on the tailwheel and messed it up, which slewed the airplane to the right, through the ditch and onto the ramp. He started bugging me about whether I'd post that if I had recorded it... and I just kinda shrugged. He started yelling at me about how I'd gone and put the TriPacer accident on Youtube, and bugged my boss enough that I just decided to take it down. Hell, Harry (my boss) doesn't deserve to be treated like that, and I really do wish I'd recorded the dickhead's fumbled landing attempt. I do, however, have a short clip of him starting a takeoff roll through a few people at a fly-in lunch (fortunately they were able to avoid being hit). Fella's gonna get someone hurt one of these days, and he yells at me for having a camera handy. Sheez.
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on May 14, 2009, 05:39:29 AM
starting a takeoff roll through a few people at a fly-in lunch
Dude! What's his deal?
Local airport narcissist/knowitall. He was up in arms about folks talking about his botched landing, yet his favorite thing in the world is hanging around and talking about everyone else. If I'd gotten a better view of folks diving for cover, I'd be sorely tempted to show it off a bit. Maybe not, though. I'm getting more and more numb about caring about much of this crap anymore.
Whatever happened to folks getting together because of their love for flying? This isn't a job I really need, and I took it mostly just to stay immersed during my flight training, but damn... my paycheck pretty much forces me to deal with some of the worst guys here (there are quite a few good guys, though).
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: Mike on May 17, 2009, 09:44:53 PM
apparently he's the guy that coined the phrase "those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do" sheesh. i hate pompous dillweeds. yeah, he's gonna hurt someone if not himself someday. be it in an airplane or car or whatever. wonder if he's gonna go hunting with Dick Cheney anytime soon?
Title: Re: Know when to say no-go (video link)
Post by: G-man on August 18, 2009, 11:28:16 PM
We have a few know-it-all jerks at our airport, and one of 'em lost control of his airplane a couple weeks ago. A really nice black-and-white Decathlon Scout. He set it down on the tailwheel and messed it up, which slewed the airplane to the right, through the ditch and onto the ramp. He started bugging me about whether I'd post that if I had recorded it... and I just kinda shrugged. He started yelling at me about how I'd gone and put the TriPacer accident on Youtube, and bugged my boss enough that I just decided to take it down. Hell, Harry (my boss) doesn't deserve to be treated like that, and I really do wish I'd recorded the dickhead's fumbled landing attempt. I do, however, have a short clip of him starting a takeoff roll through a few people at a fly-in lunch (fortunately they were able to avoid being hit). Fella's gonna get someone hurt one of these days, and he yells at me for having a camera handy. Sheez.
Is there any chance of getting a copy of the video in an e-mail if you can't post it normally?
