Roost Air Lounge => The Classroom => Topic started by: Oddball on March 01, 2009, 02:27:28 PM
Title: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 01, 2009, 02:27:28 PM
Doing a re-sit paper about Flight managment systems and Ring Laser Gyros just now for college and stuck on a couple of questions and hoping some of you out there might help:
any one know anything about four dimensional navigation or full performance based navigation?
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Ragwing on March 01, 2009, 04:38:55 PM
Four-Dimensional Navigation: Four-dimensional navigation is the ability to accurately control time as well as position. I sure wish I could control time. I would use it to remove the ackward moment where I blew it with a gal I cared for.
Ok, Ok, lets get real. It is not controlling time as the specification says, but to accurate control the use of time. This is an application of controlling time: The X-45A was given Time of Arrival (TOA) commands so the vehicle would reach a certain waypoints (defined by latitude, longitude, and altitude) in the mission plan at specified times. The X-45A automatically adjusted its speed to overcome headwinds and changed its flight plan to arrive at the specified waypoints at the times commanded by the operator. Four-dimensional navigation is intended for coordinating attacks in support of combat missions and is the foundation for the UCAV’s multi-ship coordinated flight capability, where UCAVs will use this capability to arrive simultaneously at a designated waypoint and autonomously form up into a coordinated flight package, thereby greatly reducing the operator's workload.
Does this mean that in the future, the airliner will be on time?
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 01, 2009, 07:16:35 PM
ok so lets see if i understand this right: if you enter a ETA into the Flight Managment System the aircraft when under control by autopilot and auto throttle will adjust the thrust settings and flight profile to meet the set deadline?
and no this probaly means airliners will still be delayed.
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 02, 2009, 12:55:53 PM
any one know about full performance based navigation?
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Ragwing on March 03, 2009, 01:57:05 AM
Oh, Oh, Sounds like Dilberts sales department has been promising a system that solves the common cold. http://www.clubcontroltower.net/10Oct08/IN%20FOCUS............%20%20PERFORMANCE%20BASED%20NAVIGATION%20(PBN).htm (http://www.clubcontroltower.net/10Oct08/IN%20FOCUS............%20%20PERFORMANCE%20BASED%20NAVIGATION%20(PBN).htm)
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 03, 2009, 02:01:19 AM
thanks ragwing fecking notes are incomplete i think, nothing in them about this.
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: G-man on March 03, 2009, 02:47:37 AM
any one know about full performance based navigation?
Yep, we have it. If I perform badly and do not get us to our destination in time for happy hour, then I have to buy the beers.. ::drinking:: ::drinking::
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Ragwing on March 03, 2009, 02:51:07 AM
The term full performance based navigation is hard to find. Easier to search on Performance Based Navigation (PBN). I suspect that full means when the FAA completely finishes it.
What is Performance Based Navigation?
Broadly, PBN encompasses a shift from current ground-based navigation aids emitting signals to aircraft receivers, to ‘in-aircraft’ systems that receive satellite signals that meet specific accuracy and integrity requirements combined with the Global Positioning System (GPS) to advise the aircraft’s position. Once the required performance level is established, the aircraft’s own capability determines whether it can safely achieve the specified performance and qualify for the operation.
Ugh, You should read the original 2006 specs.... It can really put one to sleep.
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 03, 2009, 02:51:35 AM
any idea on how it works G-man or is it magic to you?
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 03, 2009, 02:55:04 AM
thanks ragwing need something to help me sleep ::bow::
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Ragwing on March 03, 2009, 02:59:27 AM
Have a good rest while your aircraft figures out how close to that 747 it can fly to save fuel. I sure hope Microsoft does not intend to help write this software.
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: G-man on March 03, 2009, 03:26:41 AM
No friggin clue---I just put the airport name in some box thingy and it ells me which way to go.. ::whistle:: ::whistle::
Whoa there big fella,
Boy you guys have sure gone High-Tech. ::silly::
All I get to do is head in one direction until the spotter flails his arms ands screams like a teenaged girl at a helicopter convention... ::whistle::
::whistle::
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 03, 2009, 11:27:55 AM
ah so you use the *bat* technique then Mom. fly eyes closed and ears open ::rofl::
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Oddball on March 10, 2009, 12:05:08 PM
Ragwing I emailed ICAO about Performance Based Navigation (PBN) they sent me a email address and a adobe attachment about it, looks like some heavy reading ahead of me.
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: Baradium on March 23, 2009, 08:47:01 PM
ok so lets see if i understand this right: if you enter a ETA into the Flight Managment System the aircraft when under control by autopilot and auto throttle will adjust the thrust settings and flight profile to meet the set deadline?
and no this probaly means airliners will still be delayed.
With the really advanced airplanes, it's possible, but it's generally not done.
Generally you just tell it where to go. If you have an advanced aircraft you can tell it what speed you want as well as altitudes and speeds to cross various fixes at.
Aircraft like the CRJ I'm on the FMS controls LNAV only, the VNAV information is provides is advisory only (still spoils you, it tells you what rate of descent to descent to cross the fix at an altitude as well as what angle of descent that gives you. It even puts a little marker on your VSI showing said rate of descent).
Modern large airliners have auto throttles, which is the bit thing you need to allow the FMS to control your climbs, descents, and speeds.
These days, if ATC wants to change your arrival time at a fix, they usually just assign you a speed to maintain.
Title: Re: Flight Managment Systms
Post by: undatc on April 28, 2009, 05:59:08 AM
These days, if ATC wants to change your arrival time at a fix, they usually just assign you a speed to maintain.
Very true, however when we're metering into SFO/PDX/SEA throw all the rules out the window. Generally we want you to fly fast as you can to hit your outter fix time so it will lock in your place within the traffic management computer, then to maintain that arrival time we get to slow you way down. Ah the joys of metering. ::sick::
