Chicken Wings Forum

Roost Air Lounge => The Classroom => Topic started by: Aviation Freak on July 01, 2008, 02:11:09 PM

Title: Helicopter question
Post by: Aviation Freak on July 01, 2008, 02:11:09 PM
I'm wondering if the collective (cyclic?) for the tail and main rotors were both linked or if they each have to be controlled separately? I'm also wondering what is the hardest part about flying helicopters. :D
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Fabo on July 01, 2008, 03:21:58 PM
As far as my knowledge goes, both collective and cyclic controls main rotor only, while pedals control tail rotor.
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Mike on July 01, 2008, 05:54:15 PM
Fabo is right. the collective (on your left, looks like a parking brake) changes the pitch angle of the blade "collectively" (see? makes sense now!) all at the same time and makes the helo go up.
the cyclic changes them at different angles over the disc and makes the helo go fwd, aft, left and right, once it's in the air.
the pedals change the pitch on the tailrotor blades.

the hard part is, you need both feet and hands to steer the thing and they all effect eachother when you move one control, you have to compensate with the others to keep the helo from doing something you didn't want it to do initially.....
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Oddball on July 02, 2008, 02:59:47 PM
Does any one know what the best way would be to control a heli on microsoft Flight sim 2004? i only have the throttle, pitch,bank and yaw controls on the joystick.
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Frank N. O. on July 02, 2008, 03:12:33 PM
Does any one know what the best way would be to control a heli on microsoft Flight sim 2004? i only have the throttle, pitch,bank and yaw controls on the joystick.
"Only"? What else do you need? There's no trim in a helicopter normally and to my knowledge then engine power is more or less pre-set for helicopters, although it can be adjusted in MSFS by using the keys for elevator trim up/down for airplanes (I think).

AF: Mike said it and with thousands of real heli-time he knows what he's talking about, and he's also a heli CFI I think (right?) :)
However, with only limited MSFS helicopter flying time then I'd say a hover is the hardest thing although as Mike has said regarding R/C helicopters then the lack of actual seat-of-the-pants feel makes sim and R/C helicopter flight a lot harder than in real life in some ways.

Frank
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Fabo on July 02, 2008, 04:29:25 PM
Ian, browse hovecontrol.com , you can get quite much everything you need, including perfect copters from Jordan Moore. You will need MUUUCH patience and slightly (5-10%) reduced "Overall realism" jumper.
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Mike on July 02, 2008, 04:47:59 PM
I'm also wondering what is the hardest part about flying helicopters. :D

I forgot to answer that question...

The hardest part is getting your money together to be able to afford lessons !!  ;) ;D

The next hard part is learning how to hover, then trying to figure out the aerodynamics why they actually fly and then later in your career . . . learning how to long-line with helicopters.

Toughest job in helicopter aviation . . . i'd say it's logging, or flying the aerial saw, then construction. Bonebreaking, long hours, and precision work, while constantly being inside the dead-mans-curve . . .
 
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Frank N. O. on July 02, 2008, 09:03:29 PM
The deadman's curve is that where the altitude and airspeed is too small to enter autorotation in case of engine failure?

Frank
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: G-man on July 02, 2008, 11:17:00 PM
The deadman's curve is that where the altitude and airspeed is too small to enter autorotation in case of engine failure?

Frank

You can always enter--but inside the deadmans curve there is in-sufficient altitude and/or airspeed to allow for a completed autorotation. Chances are that if you are lucky, you MAY crawl away from the wreckage..
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Aviation Freak on July 03, 2008, 01:47:16 PM
Thanks for the replies! I learned some things I didn't know such as autorotation.

One more quick question. if any of the rotors fail, you have to shut the engines off or you'll end up in a spin right? I've always wondered how much control you have in those situations (when entering a spin and when in that autorotation thing).
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Fabo on July 03, 2008, 01:59:22 PM
Not much... and if you dont have sufficient airspeed, well then, say bye bye

http://www.cas.sk/clanok/81373/pri-brusne-havaroval-vrtulnik-zahynuli-dvaja-ludia.html (http://www.cas.sk/clanok/81373/pri-brusne-havaroval-vrtulnik-zahynuli-dvaja-ludia.html)
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Mike on July 03, 2008, 04:30:50 PM
Thanks for the replies! I learned some things I didn't know such as autorotation.

One more quick question. if any of the rotors fail, you have to shut the engines off or you'll end up in a spin right? I've always wondered how much control you have in those situations (when entering a spin and when in that autorotation thing).

Autorotation only works if your engine fails (or your driveshaft, or something with your drive system).
Main and tailrotor are connected which means you still have full control in an autorotation all the way down....

If your tailrotor fails, you could try landing your helicopter like an airplane on a runway or enter autorotation since you need you tailrotor mostly for compensation torque which goes away when you turn the engine off....

if your mainrotor fails (swashplate, pitchlinks, blades, scissor links, shaft). . . you're screwed. People often ask me what happens if a blade was to come off. Answer: you wouldn't even know what happened. These blades pull on the mast with over 20,000lbs of centrifucal force. If one was to come off it would instantly snap your neck. So I am not too worried about it...
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: TheSoccerMom on July 03, 2008, 08:24:41 PM
One of the VERY first aviation lessons I learned was,

"The main rotor is connected to the WALLET, and the tail rotor is connected to the WALLET, and the collective is connected to the WALLET, and the cyclic is connected to the WALLET, and the pedals are connected to the WALLET."

Which is why I started taking lessons in airplanes............    ::whistle::

 :D
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: Mike on July 04, 2008, 02:23:23 AM
good one, Mom !!

soooo . . .  the WALLET makes it fly then, huh?!  ;) ::)

I think we're on to something . . .

I am glad that in my case (and in G-Man's case), it's uncle Phils wallet and not my own.....  ::rofl::
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: airtac on July 07, 2008, 03:36:03 AM
Thanks for the replies! I learned some things I didn't know such as autorotation.

One more quick question. if any of the rotors fail, you have to shut the engines off or you'll end up in a spin right? I've always wondered how much control you have in those situations (when entering a spin and when in that autorotation thing).

Autorotation only works if your engine fails (or your driveshaft, or something with your drive system).
Main and tailrotor are connected which means you still have full control in an autorotation all the way down....

If your tailrotor fails, you could try landing your helicopter like an airplane on a runway or enter autorotation since you need you tailrotor mostly for compensation torque which goes away when you turn the engine off....

if your mainrotor fails (swashplate, pitchlinks, blades, scissor links, shaft). . . you're screwed. People often ask me what happens if a blade was to come off. Answer: you wouldn't even know what happened. These blades pull on the mast with over 20,000lbs of centrifucal force. If one was to come off it would instantly snap your neck. So I am not too worried about it...
Just another reason for helos to work at low altitudes-----reduces the scream factor-- :-\
Title: Re: Helicopter question
Post by: G-man on July 07, 2008, 04:37:55 AM
Just another reason for helos to work at low altitudes-----reduces the scream factor-- :-\

Good one----on that note---When it is my "time", I hope I go peacefully in my sleep, Just like my grandfather, and NOT screaming like his passengers in the back.. ::whistle:: ::whistle::
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