Roost Air Lounge => The Classroom => Topic started by: 4X-NTY on March 13, 2008, 01:15:28 PM
Title: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: 4X-NTY on March 13, 2008, 01:15:28 PM
I've been thinking about it from what weight/size an airplane get "Heavy" in the end of it callsign? and about frequencies,what signal is used for communication? (radio am/fm,atc.) oh... and two more thing about gliders:
i saw a glider pulled by a cessna,about 10 second after the cable have been released, the glider did two loops,is this ok or there were something wrong? cause in the second he got out of the loop really low...
and when the cessna releases the glider,why it shuts down the engine? everytime i see a cessna releasing the glider it shuts off the engine,not bringing it to idle,it shuts off.
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Oddball on March 13, 2008, 04:02:06 PM
if the plane is over a certain weight it is called a "heavy" for example a 747 can call its self a heavy and the A380 a "super" ive jsut woken up so i cant tell you off the top of my head what the weights are to get called a "heavy" and a "light" if this is wrong disregard and throw away lol
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on March 13, 2008, 04:05:49 PM
A "Heavy" is attached to any aircraft with a MGTOW of more than 300,000 pounds US, or approximately 135,000 kilograms.
Comm frequencies are in the VHF band from 118.000MHZ to 135.985MHZ for over land, and HF band for long over water routes. Afraid I don't know the frequency range for the HF and I gotta go make breakfast soon. Hehe. ;D
I don't know whether its wise to loop right after tow release, but if your local soaring club is having its tow plane shut off the engine after glide release, they must be REALLY watching their fuel expenses closely!!! Shutting down an engine in flight in a powered airplane by definition creates an emergency situation. I guess their tow pilot must know what he is doing, but I would not do that to save a few liters of fuel. ::thinking:: ::thinking:: ::thinking::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2008, 04:09:54 PM
what about the Boeing 757 then?
I believe it's GW is 220,000 to 255,000lbs.....
Is it because of it's vortices??
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: 4X-NTY on March 13, 2008, 04:17:27 PM
R/C,the gliders are released really close to final,the last time i saw a glider released,the tow plane turned to final and landed right after he released the glider,could it be the reason?
and about the weight, so technically, a cessna 172 that have been very very very very heavily modified,can be considered as heavy?
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Oddball on March 13, 2008, 05:50:41 PM
you know i've just done comms and nav systems at college i should know all this lol l
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: airtac on March 13, 2008, 06:28:30 PM
If they are shutting the Cessna's engine OFF immediatly after release, they are shock cooling the engine and will pay the price of cracked cylinders, the price of which will buy many tanks of gas---rather poor thinking on someone's part ::loony:: If the airplane was mine, I would fire the pilot after I got done slapping the pee out the dumbass ::rambo::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: TheSoccerMom on March 13, 2008, 07:39:45 PM
Right on Airtac -- just reading about the engine being "shut off" made me wince!!! :(
Bad, bad, bad..... they must think they're saving ALL that GAS money..... alas, the poor airplane is being trashed..... ::banghead::
::loony::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Fabo on March 13, 2008, 08:40:38 PM
R/C,the gliders are released really close to final,the last time i saw a glider released,the tow plane turned to final and landed right after he released the glider,could it be the reason?
and about the weight, so technically, a cessna 172 that have been very very very very heavily modified,can be considered as heavy?
You would need a new type certificate for such mod :)
Mike, I think 757 is still M.
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: TheSoccerMom on March 13, 2008, 09:23:42 PM
Looking in the AIM, it shows (in the Air Traffic Wake Turbulence Separations section) the B757 listed as a Large nonheavy aircraft, but then it is apparently lumped with the Heavies for the rest of the section; the category is written as "heavy/B757".... so, operationally it must be because of the vortices... I guess???
Does anybody know the details on this? I'll keep looking here....
:) ???
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: G-man on March 14, 2008, 12:06:37 AM
So Soccermom, nothing to do with this thread, BUT how did YOU become a "chicken farmer" and all your stars turn blue?? ::unbelieveable:: ::unbelieveable::
Have you been sucking up to Mikey again?? ::whistle:: ::whistle::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: TheSoccerMom on March 14, 2008, 02:51:09 AM
Boy G-Man, there is just NO getting anything past you, is there?!?!?!?!! ::sulk::
Actually, this latest endeavor entailed 4 cases of Dom Perignon, 6 flats of Cuban cigars, a rather impressive cash transaction (unmarked bills ONLY), and for the LAST item, well, I'm still working on that..... ::banghead::
Have to write 5000 times:
"Helicopters are better than airplanes" "Helicopters are better than airplanes" "Helicopters are better than airplanes"...........
::banghead::
And, I was kinda hopin' for PINK letters, not BLUE..... :'(
:D ;) :D ;)
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: G-man on March 14, 2008, 03:46:15 AM
Boy G-Man, there is just NO getting anything past you, is there?!?!?!?!! ::sulk::
Actually, this latest endeavor entailed 4 cases of Dom Perignon, 6 flats of Cuban cigars, a rather impressive cash transaction (unmarked bills ONLY), and for the LAST item, well, I'm still working on that..... ::banghead::
Have to write 5000 times:
"Helicopters are better than airplanes" "Helicopters are better than airplanes" "Helicopters are better than airplanes"...........
::banghead::
And, I was kinda hopin' for PINK letters, not BLUE..... :'(
:D ;) :D ;)
Hmmmmmmm. So the 5000 lines are good.. Now I know why Mike called me yesterday.. HE was going to tell me all about your "promotion", but just could'nt bring himself to do it.
I feel so empty, my life is worthless, I wanted to be a farmer, I'm going to go hang with Jim--He is NOT a farmer either...we can go drown our sorrows together.. ::drinking:: ::drinking::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: TheSoccerMom on March 14, 2008, 03:57:33 AM
I feel so empty, my life is worthless, I wanted to be a farmer, I'm going to go hang with Jim--He is NOT a farmer either...we can go drown our sorrows together.. ::drinking:: ::drinking::
We-e-e-l-l-ll,
It's tempting to say this WAS a promotion.... ::silly:: and that, somehow, there's some lofty REASON I get to go farming.... but, ach, I'll share the secret....
Mike told me he decides who gets the farm shovel by their DENTAL status... and Hey, let's face it.... You guys both have all your teeth!!!
::loony:: :D :P ::whistle::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: G-man on March 14, 2008, 04:51:12 AM
Mike told me he decides who gets the farm shovel by their DENTAL status... and Hey, let's face it.... You guys both have all your teeth!!!
::loony:: :D :P ::whistle::
hahahahah
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Fabo on March 14, 2008, 06:00:48 AM
;D I likez it heer
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Oddball on March 14, 2008, 07:55:25 AM
so if i want to go to the little boys tree out side i have to ask you for the shovel s'mom ::unbelieveable:: ::eek:: ::loony:: ::complaining: and by the sounds of it you got off lightly having to write out 5000 lines ::rofl::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: airtac on March 14, 2008, 09:48:27 AM
I feel so empty, my life is worthless, I wanted to be a farmer, I'm going to go hang with Jim--He is NOT a farmer either...we can go drown our sorrows together.. ::drinking:: ::drinking::
We-e-e-l-l-ll,
It's tempting to say this WAS a promotion.... ::silly:: and that, somehow, there's some lofty REASON I get to go farming.... but, ach, I'll share the secret....
Mike told me he decides who gets the farm shovel by their DENTAL status... and Hey, let's face it.... You guys both have all your teeth!!!
::loony:: :D :P ::whistle::
WADYYAMEAN? I got all my teeth (they're in a mayonnaise jar by the bed next to my wig, titanium leg, glass eye, and hearing aids) plus I got rutabaga growing in the garden and I ain't a farmer????-----Gordy's right, nothing to do but sit around and have some home sqeezin's (you know--likker--white lighnin') that'll help us figger out how to attain this exalted "FARMER" rating. Or it's a sexist thing Gman, Mike likes her better because she's a GIRL (sheesh--wimmen flying airplanes-what next?) ::banghead::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on March 14, 2008, 04:02:34 PM
Mike, I am not certain about this but I have read some threads on other forums that say some of the later 757's had a GW increase (maybe) and that made them a "Heavy". Maybe the cutoff point is 250,000 instead of 300,000? What I do know is that some 757's are classified as "Heavy" and some are not.
Now, I was raised on a farm and I work for a farmer... What'll that get me for recognition? Hehe ::loony:: ;D
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Frank N. O. on March 14, 2008, 04:04:51 PM
Actually I'm pretty sure this was asked here some time ago, and I think that there is an exeption from weight if a plane has heavy wake turbulence. But I'm not a pilot so I'm just guestimating from memory fragments.
Frank
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: PiperGirl on March 14, 2008, 06:24:41 PM
Not sure if any of you read Airliners.net forum, but apparently they have the same questions about the 757. Here's their responses - http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/72781/ (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/72781/)
They basically say what has already been said here, but there are a few other explanations such as:
Quote
If not stated above which I didn't see, the reason that ATA is a "Heavy" is cause they are over 255,000 cause they are all coach. A 757 with First Class seats keeps it under that TOW, but ATA with so many more seat on-board is almost always heavy.
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: PiperGirl on March 14, 2008, 06:26:57 PM
Boy G-Man, there is just NO getting anything past you, is there?!?!?!?!! ::sulk::
Actually, this latest endeavor entailed 4 cases of Dom Perignon, 6 flats of Cuban cigars, a rather impressive cash transaction (unmarked bills ONLY), and for the LAST item, well, I'm still working on that..... ::banghead::
Have to write 5000 times:
"Helicopters are better than airplanes" "Helicopters are better than airplanes" "Helicopters are better than airplanes"...........
::banghead::
And, I was kinda hopin' for PINK letters, not BLUE..... :'(
:D ;) :D ;)
::bow:: ::bow:: ::bow:: ::bow:: ::bow:: ::bow:: ::bow:: I wannnna be jus like s'mom when I gro up ;D :D
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: G-man on March 14, 2008, 06:31:58 PM
it's a sexist thing Gman, Mike likes her better because she's a GIRL (sheesh--wimmen flying airplanes-what next?) ::banghead::
I'm with you Jim.. next thing ya know, they'll be putting on their halter tops and marching down to the voter stations to vote.. Damn the suffragette movement.. ::whistle:: ::whistle::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: PiperGirl on March 14, 2008, 08:47:19 PM
Even Better... Ya'll might jest git ur selvs a woman president >:D
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: airtac on March 14, 2008, 10:30:59 PM
Even Better... Ya'll might jest git ur selvs a woman president >:D
AND I'D VOTE FOR HER (if it wasn't you-know-who) ::unbelieveable::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: TheSoccerMom on March 15, 2008, 02:55:37 AM
BWAAA HAAAA, jeez, after a lifetime of shoveling just about everything one can imagine, for the VERY FIRST time, everybody wants to chip IN!!!!! :D
Wow, Mike, I had no idea this chicken-farmer stuff was so, um, APPEALING. ::bow:: ::bow:: ::bow::
And, since I want to do this up right, this morning I went next door to the folks with the 172.... sat right down at their chicken wire fence and talked to the girls in the chicken coop... you know, trying to "Be one with the Chicken Cosmos" and all......
And we were having a nice little chat, the flock of us, when the neighbor man came home from town.... we were so busy clucking and such, I never DID hear him walk up behind me.... WOW, what a look......
Don't think I'll ever get near that pretty airplane now....... I think I hear him building a fence, actually..... ::banghead::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: G-man on March 15, 2008, 03:25:55 AM
I was wondering how long it would take the guys to catch on. . . . and then get all worked up about it . . . .
5 hours and a few minutes it was ;)
Haaaa, so you were counting, Mike??!??!??!! Too funny...... ::rofl::
I must say, I've been called a GIRL more in this thread than I have in the last 30+ years...... :D
Does that mean things are looking up?? ::whistle::
Can I quit counseling now??!!??!??!?? ;)
::loony::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Ragwing on March 15, 2008, 05:26:59 PM
The 757 was designed during one of the gas crises. Airlines were wanting fuel efficiency even at higher price. It has a very unique wing that provides lots of lift but also generates vortexes.
As soon as it was released, the price of fuel dropped and the interest in the higher cost aircraft wained. The production line was closed because the 737NG was carrying the same number of passengers (but not even close on the weight carrying capacity).
She is a great airplane. I wish Boeing had allowed a few derivatives to be designed. That wing has so much more potential.
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: undatc on March 19, 2008, 06:57:34 AM
There are several series of 757's. This is the reason you are getting some conflicting information if a 757 is a heavy or not. In the air traffic world, the 757 depending on the series falls into its own special category for wake turbulence separation or if it falls into the heavy category.
If the model in question is a 757-200 it falls into the special category which requires the following radar wake turbulence separation in a terminal environment:
Heavy behind a 752: 4 miles 752 behind a 752: 4 miles Large behind a 752: 4 Small behind a 752: 5
If the model in question is a 757-300 it falls into the normal heavy category which requires the following radar wake turbulence separation in a terminal environment:
Heavy behind a Heavy: 4 miles 752 behind a Heavy: 4 miles Large behind a Heavy: 5 miles Small behind a Heavy: 5 miles, except on final where 6 miles is required. More info can be found in section 5-5-4f of the 7110.65
This only applies in a terminal environment, ie within class B/C/D airspace or if you are utilizing TRACON services. In an enroute environment, the rules completely change and you throw all those numbers out the window.
And to your frequencies question from the 7110.65;
Quote
2-4-1. RADIO COMMUNICATIONS
Use radio frequencies for the special purposes for which they are intended. A single frequency may be used for more than one function except as follows:
TERMINAL. When combining positions in the tower, do not use ground control frequency for airborne communications.
NOTE- Due to the limited number of frequencies assigned to towers for the ground control function, it is very likely that airborne use of a ground control frequency could cause interference to other towers or interference to your aircraft from another tower. When combining these functions, it is recommended combining them on local control. The ATIS may be used to specify the desired frequency.
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: airtac on March 23, 2008, 02:51:32 AM
I was wondering how long it would take the guys to catch on. . . . and then get all worked up about it . . . .
5 hours and a few minutes it was ;)
Haaaa, so you were counting, Mike??!??!??!! Too funny...... ::rofl::
I must say, I've been called a GIRL more in this thread than I have in the last 30+ years...... :D
Does that mean things are looking up?? ::whistle::
Can I quit counseling now??!!??!??!?? ;)
::loony::
Just don't quit your meds too--remember what happened last time you skipped them ::eek:: ::loony::
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Oddball on March 23, 2008, 09:42:29 AM
what you mean the incident where s'Mom turned into a werewolf or the time when she thought she could fly a decent plane like a Britten Norman islander (oh I'm going to get it now)
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: airtac on March 23, 2008, 03:42:23 PM
Islanders are decent airplanes--they have their own market niche but being fast, comfortable, or sexy is not included ;D
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: TheSoccerMom on March 23, 2008, 03:51:04 PM
Ah Ian, how'd you hear about the werewolf incident?!! I'd have thought that could have at least stayed THIS side of the Atlantic.... ::loony::
As for the Islander..... Hmmm.... ::thinking::
I'd bet one would make a good place to store parts on the side of the runway...? And perhaps the beer cooler..?? ;D
8)
Title: Re: Heavy planes and frequencies
Post by: Oddball on March 23, 2008, 04:24:33 PM
heard the howl from over here thought it was the silencer falling off one of my models ::rofl::
