Inflight Entertainment => The missing link => Topic started by: Baradium on October 17, 2007, 08:02:45 PM
Title: Beer Trivia
Post by: Baradium on October 17, 2007, 08:02:45 PM
I thought some of you might enjoy this.
http://www.burp.com.au/beer_trivia.htm
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According to The Code of Hammurabi of ancient Babylonia (c. 1750 B.C.) a merchant could be put to death for diluting beer.
In Germany there is a beer ice cream in popsicle form. Its alcohol content is lower than that of classic beer.
In Medieval Europe, brewing and baking went together. Thus women were the first European brewers and were often called ale wives.
1810: Munich establishes Oktoberfest as an official celebration.
King Frederick the Great once banned coffee to bolster sagging beer sales.
In Babylon over 4000 years ago, it was customary for the bride's father to supply his new son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. As mead is a honey beer and their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the 'honey month' – or what we know today as the 'honeymoon'. In fact, Babylonians believed if the groom drank mead for an entire month, it enhanced the chances of his wife bearing a male heir.
In Bavaria, beer is legally defined as a staple food.
After consuming buckets of aul (or ale), the Vikings would head fearlessly into battle, often without armour or even shirts. In fact, "berserk" means "bare shirt" in Norse, and eventually took on the meaning of their wild battles.
The first US lager was brewed in 1840 by John Wagner, who had a small brewery in the back of his house on St. John Street in Philadelphia. Wagner brought the first lager yeast to the United States from a brewery in Bavaria.
Historians report that during the Middle Ages, when monks were brewing their beer in their monasteries, each monk was allowed to drink 5 quarts of beer a day.
Legend has it that Gambrinus, god of beer, challenged the devil to produce a “wine without grapes.” The historical origin of the concoction we know today can be found in 12th-century Belgium, although the Egyptians had already created fermented-grain beverages well before then.
The pursuit of beer changed the course of humanity forever in 5000 BC. Neolithic people abandoned their wandering lives for farming, to grow grain for brewing beer.
In 1116 BC, Chinese imperial edict stated that heaven required people to drink beer.
The Egyptian pyramids were built on beer. Stonecutters, slaves and public officials were paid in a type of beer called 'kash' – which is where the word 'cash' originated.
In English pubs, unruly customers were told to mind their own pints and quarts and settle down – and so began the phrase "mind your P's and Q's". (Another explanation is customers were being warned about the potency of the beer. At 'freehouses' where people could make and sell their own beer, there was less control on the alcohol content.)
The familiar Scandinavian toast sköl derives from scole, the drinking bowl shaped like the upper half of a human skull. Originally, these bowls were fashioned from the actual skulls of enemy killed in battle.
Before thermometers were invented, brewers would dip a thumb into the mix to find the right temperature for adding yeast. Too cold and the yeast wouldn't grow; too hot and the yeast would die. This ancient practice is where we get the phrase 'rule of thumb'.
Saint Arnold, a bishop born in 580, is considered the patron saint of beer. He encouraged people to drink beer instead of water during the Plague. Indeed, the Plague suddenly disappeared once his word spread (though some suggest because beer was boiled in the brewing process, it would have been safer than water, which had previously spread the infection.) When Saint Arnold died in 640, the citizens of his hometown carried his body from Remiremont to Metz for reburial in their church. On this journey, another miracle occurred – when the weary porters stopped to share their only mug of beer, they discovered the mug never ran dry.
The most expensive beer in the world? It’s called “Tutankhamen” and is prepared according to the recipe recovered by a group of University of Cambridge archaeologists in Queen Nefertiti’s Temple of the Sun in Egypt. It costs US $52 a bottle, and is produced in limited and numbered edition.
The pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock because they ran out of beer. Although they planned to continue down the east coast, the Mayflower's log explains the passengers "were hasted ashore and made to drink water that the seamen might have the more beer". On their arrival, the pilgrims immediately built a common house, which included a brewery.
In ancient times, monks who fasted or abstained from solid food subsisted on beer.
The music for "The Star Spangled Banner" was derived from a British drinking song called "Anacreon".
Carlos V: This emperor was the first beer importer, and one of its most illustrious drinkers and aficionados. It’s said that even in his retirement in Yuste, he kept a Flemish brewer in his reduced entourage.
Assyrian tablets from 2000 BC stated that Noah was carrying beer aboard the ark.
The United States two-dollar bill features three brewers: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Samuel Adams. In fact, George Washington installed a brewhouse on his grounds at Mount Vernon.
Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle baked into the rim of their ceramic cups. When they needed a refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" is the phrase inspired by this practice.
Beer wasn't sold in bottles until 1850. Beer lovers would visit their local tavern with a special bucket, have it filled and then begin the merry journey home.
Ale was brewed for centuries without hops. Before the 1400s, ale was flavoured with herbs such as rosemary and thyme. Yet the antiseptic quality of hops helped to preserve ale from spoiling and later became a vital part of its flavour.
In the Czech Republic, beer is cheaper than Coke. A half litre at the local pub costs just 30 cents (10.50 CZK) while a half litre of Coke costs 85 cents (30 CZK). Beer is a little more expensive than club soda (which costs 29 cents, or 10 CZK, for a half litre).
A labeorphilist is a collector of beer bottles.
Cenosillicaphobia is the fear of an empty glass
A tegestologist is a collector of beer mats.
A flood of beer swept through the streets of St. Giles, England, on 17 October 1814. Caused by a rupture in a brewery tank containing 3500 barrels of beer, the tidal wave killed nine people and demolished two houses.
Universities in Europe and America from the 1300s through the 1700s had in-house breweries to provide beer to the students. Harvard had its own brew house in 1674 and five beer halls, each burned down by rioting divinity students.
The first six-pack of beer was produced by the Pabst Brewery in the 1940s. The brewery conducted numerous studies, which found six cans were the ideal weight for the average housewife to carry home from the store.
Ancient Egyptians brewed beer in just three days, due to the hot climate. Served as a still fermenting cereal mash, they would drink it through straws from a communal bowl.
In eleventh-century England, a bride would distribute ale to her wedding guests in exchange for donations to the newlyweds. This brew, known as Bride Ale, is the origin of the word 'bridal'.
One method of checking a beer’s quality is the way in which the foam adheres to the side of the glass after each sip. Beer connoisseurs call this “Brussels lace.”
By 3000 BC, the Egyptians were brewing at least six different types of beer.
1888: Citizens of Munich took to the streets and rioted after a beer price increase was announced.
In 1740, Admiral Vernon of the British fleet decided to water down the navy's rum. The unhappy sailors nicknamed the Admiral 'Old Grog', after his wool grogram coats. The term 'grog' soon began to mean the watered down drink itself.
Czechs drink the most beer in the world per capita – an average of 160 litres a year per person.
In olde England, town inns paid a government tax known as a 'scot' for serving beer. Beer lovers who left town to drink at rural pubs were said to be drinking 'scot free'.
Root Beer was origionally called Root Tea, however the name was changed to Root Beer to get more people to take interest in it.
Beer recipes have been found on Babylonian clay tablets from over 6000 years ago.
Guinness sells an average of 7 million glasses a day.
The British Army supplied its men with a cash allowance for beer, considered a vital nutritional staple on long overseas missions. With this allowance of one penny, soldiers enjoyed six pints of ale every day.
1587: The first beer is brewed in the New World at Sir Walter Raleigh's colony in Virginia, but the colonists send requests to England for better beer
A beer a day... Beer was used to treat over 100 illnesses in Egypt, 1600 BC.
In the 13th century, King Wenceslas convinced the Pope to revoke an order banning the brewing of beer in Czech territories (no wonder he was known as 'Good King Wenceslas).
In Egypt, two containers of beer were the minimum wage for a day's labour.
American beer is predominately made from rice. That is why it tastes so light compared to foriegn beers. This is purely an American invention to increase profits as they hoped a lighter beer would also draw women to purchase.
Beer was often served for breakfast in medieval England.
It was customary in the 13th century to baptize children with beer.
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: airtac on October 17, 2007, 10:21:02 PM
THLANXS, Juss wad I neheeded to (hic) know ::drinking::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Frank N. O. on October 17, 2007, 11:50:01 PM
I see, is this partly a joke or at least sort-of reliable? For instance the berserk part since I can't get any modern scandinavian words to fit that, but I guess we could ask a person from Iceland since their language is the one closest to old-norse of the modern nordic languages. I can however tell you that it is indeed correct that we say the word also meaning "bowl" where you say "cheers" however at least in modern days it's spelled "skål" and not "sköl/skøl" (two variants of the same letter, the second is used in danish and possibly also one or both of the norwegian writing systems and the first is used in swedish which is actually the sibling language of danish where norwegian is from the other branch of scandinavian languages). Sköl/skøl doesn't mean anything to my knowledge however it is pronounced the same as the word "skyl" which means rinse/pour and is commonly used to say "værsgo at skyl" (english: go ahead and pour) when you're drinking instead of saying "skål", this is usually used in a friendly and jovial setting.
Note: While I'm at it, I gotta get this one told. In danish and swedish and perhaps also norwegian, when you say: "I am married", you're literally also saying "I am poison" :D The word for "married" is the same as the word for "poison" :D The word btw is "gift" ::rofl::
Back on topic, on tv I once heard that the old danish kings drank tons of beer in the 16th/17th century when they had large 3-day group dinners. However the beer was very light by todays standard (otherwise the amount they say they drank would've killed them). They also did it however because the water wasn't very clean and hazardous to the health.
Frank
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 18, 2007, 12:59:54 AM
Back on topic, on tv I once heard that the old danish kings drank tons of beer in the 16th/17th century when they had large 3-day group dinners. However the beer was very light by todays standard (otherwise the amount they say they drank would've killed them). They also did it however because the water wasn't very clean and hazardous to the health.
Frank
Sounds like a fine idea to drink if you ask me. ::whistle:: Beer dousing and strippers all round.... ::drinking::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Baradium on October 18, 2007, 04:39:07 AM
I see, is this partly a joke or at least sort-of reliable? For instance the berserk part since I can't get any modern scandinavian words to fit that, but I guess we could ask a person from Iceland since their language is the one closest to old-norse of the modern nordic languages. I can however tell you that it is indeed correct that we say the word also meaning "bowl" where you say "cheers" however at least in modern days it's spelled "skål" and not "sköl/skøl" (two variants of the same letter, the second is used in danish and possibly also one or both of the norwegian writing systems and the first is used in swedish which is actually the sibling language of danish where norwegian is from the other branch of scandinavian languages). Sköl/skøl doesn't mean anything to my knowledge however it is pronounced the same as the word "skyl" which means rinse/pour and is commonly used to say "værsgo at skyl" (english: go ahead and pour) when you're drinking instead of saying "skål", this is usually used in a friendly and jovial setting.
In addition to drinking, I heard before that they sometimes enjoyed special mushrooms. I remember "berserk" coming from the same reasoning (IE the vikings insane battling), but didn't remember the original meaning of the word.
It's supposed to be accurate trivia.
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 18, 2007, 07:04:01 AM
That website did a disclaimer at the very top which implied that these stories are not necessarily all true.
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We've trawled the web to find these 'facts'. How true they all are you'll have to decide for yourself, but a good read nonetheless. Do you know any others 'Contact Us' & let us in on the secret!
So they are being up front with the fact that these are anecdotal in nature.
Just to punch a few holes in a couple statements, here's one example,
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In Babylon over 4000 years ago, it was customary for the bride's father to supply his new son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. As mead is a honey beer and their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the 'honey month' – or what we know today as the 'honeymoon'.
It certainly sounds good when taken at face value. However, I have very strong doubts that modern English was spoken in Babylon over 4000 years ago, so it was probably called something very different from "honeymoon" in Babylonian.
Frank, you are correct that beer was drank in large amounts partly because water was unsafe to drink. Before the 20th century public water purification systems and water waste treatment plants were non-existant, and most river systems in Europe and North America were open sewers. Even in today's Russia, one does not drink the local tap water unless it is boiled for 20 minutes. Beer's fermentation process helped destroy the unwanted bacteria and parasites present in untreated water, and it helped make the day go by a bit quicker, I imagine. ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: PiperGirl on October 18, 2007, 01:07:58 PM
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Before thermometers were invented, brewers would dip a thumb into the mix to find the right temperature for adding yeast. Too cold and the yeast wouldn't grow; too hot and the yeast would die. This ancient practice is where we get the phrase 'rule of thumb'.
I have heard a different explination for "rule of thumb..." From a college history class:
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This has been said to derive from the belief that English law allowed a man to beat his wife with a stick so long as it is was no thicker than his thumb. In 1782 Judge Sir Francis Buller is reported as having made this legal ruling. The following year James Gillray published a satirical cartoon attacking Buller and caricaturing him as 'Judge Thumb'. The cartoon shows Buller carrying two bundles of sticks and the caption reads "thumbsticks - for family correction: warranted lawful!"
::rofl::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Fabo on October 18, 2007, 01:09:02 PM
Hmm.... I would love to have a nice half-litre by now...
And yes, beer does cost less than coke around here. In many pubs, rated on litre, beer is the cheapest drink around. Not three times though. I would say, half to one third cheaper.
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Baradium on October 19, 2007, 05:01:52 AM
Hmm.... I would love to have a nice half-litre by now...
And yes, beer does cost less than coke around here. In many pubs, rated on litre, beer is the cheapest drink around. Not three times though. I would say, half to one third cheaper.
One third cheaper than coke... means coke is 3 times as much... ;)
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: gibbo_335 on October 19, 2007, 07:43:13 AM
:( :( :( Hey there's no Aussie beer trivia in there :'(
>:D OK then so's here's my favorite bit of beer trivia from over-under here ;)
In the mid 70's, Australians were the 3rd biggest beer drinkers in the world just behind Germany and Belgium. BUT in the late 1990's, we fell off the top ten list ::eek:: ::eek:: ::eek::!
BUT ::rofl:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: we are working on regaining our 3rd spot ranking.... ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: later I'm off to the fridge ;D
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Fabo on October 19, 2007, 01:05:41 PM
Hmm.... I would love to have a nice half-litre by now...
And yes, beer does cost less than coke around here. In many pubs, rated on litre, beer is the cheapest drink around. Not three times though. I would say, half to one third cheaper.
One third cheaper than coke... means coke is 3 times as much... ;)
??? Seems like Europeans think different, 1/3 chepaer means chepar by 1/3, means beer costs 2/3 of coke price... not three times cheaper?
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 19, 2007, 05:36:11 PM
Hmm.... I would love to have a nice half-litre by now...
And yes, beer does cost less than coke around here. In many pubs, rated on litre, beer is the cheapest drink around. Not three times though. I would say, half to one third cheaper.
One third cheaper than coke... means coke is 3 times as much... ;)
??? Seems like Europeans think different, 1/3 chepaer means chepar by 1/3, means beer costs 2/3 of coke price... not three times cheaper?
It still won't inspire me to drink coke unless it is spiked with Rum. Cuba Libre, anyone? ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 20, 2007, 12:02:05 AM
It still won't inspire me to drink coke unless it is spiked with Rum. Cuba Libre, anyone? ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking::
What about a "Vodka & Coke"?? Its called a "Gorby", after Gorbachev drank one during the peice talks in Reykyjavik on October 11, 1986.. I drink them ALL the time... In recognition opf the talks..even though they did break down last minute. I was actually there in 86, although did not attend..
Of course--I think the talks broke down not because of important missile talks, but because Gorbachev was upset over his "movies" not being shown in the US and all Reagans movies flooing the Soviet market... Here is an excerpt from the talks...
"Secretary General Gorbachev: We are for parity in general. In the information field, for example, or in film. Almost half of the movies showing in our theaters are American. Soviet movies are hardly ever shown in the United States. That is not parity.
President Reagan: We do not have any ban on your movies. The film industry is a free business, and if someone wants to show your films he can do it.
Secretary General Gorbachev: I see that the President avoids this question and goes into talk about business.
President Reagan: Our government cannot control the film market. If you want to inundate us with your movies go right ahead. How our movies get to your country, I do not know.
Secretary General Gorbachev: It is an interesting situation, simply a paradox. In your country, the most democratic country, obstacles arise to showing our movies, while in our country, a totalitarian country, almost half the movies being shown are American. How can you reconcile this, that the Soviet Union is an undemocratic country but your films are being shown? "
Sounds like two kids fighting to me..
Enough of the history lesson--Martooni time.. ::whistle:: ::whistle:: ::drinking::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: airtac on October 20, 2007, 12:10:41 AM
How about Vodka and hot chocolate ???---Ran out of Brandy one time and found I like Vodka in my hot cocoa---me? an alcoholic
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 20, 2007, 12:17:14 AM
Me likes my Vodka pure, am I not an alcoholic then ???
I like it undiluted also--keep a bottle in the freezer next to my Aquavit and frozen shot glasses ::) The Aquavit is a nice accompaniment to ripe cheese and sourdough french bread, the syrupy frozen Stoli is delicious anytime............
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 20, 2007, 06:18:46 PM
I like it undiluted also--keep a bottle in the freezer next to my Aquavit and frozen shot glasses ::) The Aquavit is a nice accompaniment to ripe cheese and sourdough french bread, the syrupy frozen Stoli is delicious anytime............
Ahhhh, listen to all the pilots with their "alcohol" recipes..
My personal favourite is a good blue cheese or stilton with a good port. As for vodka--Chopin, up with a twist. ::whistle:: ::whistle::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on October 20, 2007, 06:36:38 PM
I always though Young Einstein invented beer.
...and rock-n-roll.
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Frank N. O. on October 20, 2007, 06:49:13 PM
Hahahahaha, Yahoo Serious is one serious yahoo! ::rofl::
Frank
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 20, 2007, 09:13:53 PM
The only Vodka I drink nowadays is made in my wife's hometown in Russia. THAT stuff is to die for. Goes down almost like water, then when it hits yer gut you break out in a sweat. ::sweat:: Afraid I don't know the name of the brand, and I do not read Cyrillic so I can't even guess it by looking at the label.
Do it russian style. Drink it at room temperature and follow it with Lard and russian Black Bread. Before you know it you'll be ready to dance a russian jig and hurl insults at the Capitalist Pigs! >:D |:)\ ::drinking:: ::rambo::
::rofl:: ::rofl:: ::rofl::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 20, 2007, 10:57:39 PM
Do it russian style. Drink it at room temperature and follow it with Lard and russian Black Bread. Before you know it you'll be ready to dance a russian jig and hurl insults at the Capitalist Pigs! >:D |:)\ ::drinking:: ::rambo::
::rofl:: ::rofl:: ::rofl::
Many years ago, just after the end of the cold war, I got to fly an MI-2 and then afterwards I drank home made vodka with 5 Russian pilots, long story, I'll save it for another day. They spoke no English and I spoke no Russian, but being pilots we had an understanding. The vodka was nasty, but we didn’t care, we chased it with a spoonfuls of spam. I don’t know which was worse, the spam or the vodka. We laughed, exchanged stories and trinkets and had a really good time. Then we staggered our separate ways and I never met them again. They were actually trying to sell their helicopter to get money to make it back to Russia. I have always wanted to drink vodka in Russia ever since, obviously I would pay for the good stuff now. ::whistle:: ::whistle::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 21, 2007, 04:57:22 AM
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Ahhhh, listen to all the pilots with their "alcohol" recipes..
Sure thing, G-Man. Remember... NEVER trust a pilot that doesn't drink!!!!! >:D |:)\ ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::loony::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Fabo on October 21, 2007, 09:34:54 AM
The only Vodka I drink nowadays is made in my wife's hometown in Russia. THAT stuff is to die for. Goes down almost like water, then when it hits yer gut you break out in a sweat. ::sweat:: Afraid I don't know the name of the brand, and I do not read Cyrillic so I can't even guess it by looking at the label.
Do it russian style. Drink it at room temperature and follow it with Lard and russian Black Bread. Before you know it you'll be ready to dance a russian jig and hurl insults at the Capitalist Pigs! >:D |:)\ ::drinking:: ::rambo::
::rofl:: ::rofl:: ::rofl::
You got it!
As for my favourite, Союз-Виктан and Русский Стандарт. You can even buy the Standart in the USA as I have just readen on their site!
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Baradium on October 22, 2007, 07:17:44 AM
Ahhhh, listen to all the pilots with their "alcohol" recipes..
Sure thing, G-Man. Remember... NEVER trust a pilot that doesn't drink!!!!! >:D |:)\ ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::loony::
Well that isn't very nice.... ::sulk::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Frank N. O. on October 22, 2007, 05:23:21 PM
I remember some english classes and we had to use "I don't" and then add something in the correct sense after that. I said I don't drink. A little later while the others were still practicing that, one after the other, I took a drink from my sodabottle and the teacher turned his head and said: I thought you said you didn't drink? ;)
The human being cannot survive for more than a day without fluids so any pilot that doesn't drink is dangerous. G-man never said what the pilot had to drink so I'm not offended since I only drink orange-soda/-juice and not even coffee/tea let alone anything alchoholic :D
Frank
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: airtac on October 22, 2007, 08:14:13 PM
I remember some english classes and we had to use "I don't" and then add something in the correct sense after that. I said I don't drink. A little later while the others were still practicing that, one after the other, I took a drink from my sodabottle and the teacher turned his head and said: I thought you said you didn't drink? ;)
The human being cannot survive for more than a day without fluids so any pilot that doesn't drink is dangerous. G-man never said what the pilot had to drink so I'm not offended since I only drink orange-soda/-juice and not even coffee/tea let alone anything alchoholic :D
Frank
Well golly-gee Frank, you sound like Radar O'Rielly (who only drank grape Nehi) on M*A*S*H ::silly:: ::rofl::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 22, 2007, 09:57:37 PM
I dont know bout you Frank---got to be something fishy bout a guy who does'n t drink alcohol.. ::whistle:: ::drinking::
So Airtac, you goin south? I see Panaca Jane is in San Diego, and I just got the call to get "ready to go". Unfortunatly, LaFawnduh is in peices right now, so I will have to take her identical hangar sister, (well apart from the N#).
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Frank N. O. on October 22, 2007, 10:26:50 PM
Hey, Radar was cool so I'll take that as a compliment. Movie-trivia: Gary Burghoff was one of only three actors to be in both the movie and series, althoguh G.Wood only played General Hammond in 3 episodes and Tim Brown played a different role. The movie also had Tom Skerrit who later went on to playing Viper in Top Gun (which also had a cameo of the real Viper). Really trivial: I watched both MASH and The Cannonball Run and Cannonball Run II and it took me a lot of years before I realised that Klinger and the Sheik were the same! Jamie Farr btw was the only one from Mash that actually was in Korea although that was in peacetime. The Sheik was also the only one to also be in the third un-official Cannonball movie titled Speed Zone: Cannonball Fever. Edit: Appearently the trivia page was change since I last read it. Alan Alda also served in Korea according to it, also after the cease-fire like Jamie Farr.
G-man: Oh come on, I love flying and women, that's two out of three, that aint that bad is it? ::rofl::
Frank
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: airtac on October 23, 2007, 05:09:07 AM
I dont know bout you Frank---got to be something fishy bout a guy who does'n t drink alcohol.. ::whistle:: ::drinking::
So Airtac, you goin south? I see Panaca Jane is in San Diego, and I just got the call to get "ready to go". Unfortunatly, LaFawnduh is in peices right now, so I will have to take her identical hangar sister, (well apart from the N#).
I'm on standby but probably not---them puppies are turning into helicopter shows ::complaining: ::complaining:
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Baradium on October 23, 2007, 08:27:41 AM
Just read a newspaper article that was saying they were getting 75 mph winds out there.... doesn't sound too fun...
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: TheSoccerMom on October 24, 2007, 12:30:52 AM
Yeah, I heard gusts of 91 knots. Now.. THAT is just UGLEEEEEEEEE. ::silly::
That is some tough, rugged, dramatic country, with wild weather.... and then throw in several million people, with urban problems...... it is one tough place to fight fire, for sure.
A pilot friend was killed in 2003 when headed to the fires there... there's something very humbling when you remember this country has been burning for thousands of years... and, we're all recent, new visitors in this arena..... |:)\
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2007, 01:20:13 AM
Boy, how you guys get from talking about beer to 91mph winds is kind of amazing. ::drinking:: ::drinking:: ::drinking::
I can see this one is not invented:
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: TheSoccerMom on October 24, 2007, 01:46:05 AM
Haw haw, no kidding!!!!!!!! ;D
I guess, because the WINDS between my EARS were 78 G 91, well, that just kind of naturally slipped in here................. ::rofl::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Baradium on October 24, 2007, 08:43:09 AM
What can you even do with those winds? Even on the ground it seems it'd be impossible to slow a fire down....
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2007, 05:35:39 PM
I actually turned my TV on now that everybody keeps talking about the fires and watched a few mediums drop water in the wind and it looked like it did nothing at all. You can't do much in these winds, you're totally right. Even if you hit the fire, the ambers will re-ignite it before you get back to the dip-site.
But keep in mind that this is also a political game. The public and especially the people who just lost their houses need to see that "something at least" is getting done. You can't order 30 helicopters and then have them all just sit there. It looks bad. We'll won't catch it until the wind dies down, but at least it looks like we're making an effort. See how that works?! ;)
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: airtac on October 25, 2007, 03:34:25 AM
I actually turned my TV on now that everybody keeps talking about the fires and watched a few mediums drop water in the wind and it looked like it did nothing at all. You can't do much in these winds, you're totally right. Even if you hit the fire, the ambers will re-ignite it before you get back to the dip-site.
But keep in mind that this is also a political game. The public and especially the people who just lost their houses need to see that "something at least" is getting done. You can't order 30 helicopters and then have them all just sit there. It looks bad. We'll won't catch it until the wind dies down, but at least it looks like we're making an effort. See how that works?! ;)
|:)\ THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT |:)\ Same reason the DC 10 supertanker is being used---POLITICS !!! ::banghead::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 25, 2007, 05:32:49 AM
Ouch! Well I wish they at least have really well visible anti-col lts...and you good eyesight...
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: airtac on October 25, 2007, 03:34:44 PM
I've worked with the Military helicopters sans VHF radios, (most are great pilots-just no fire experience) We found the best way was to give them an area of thier own to do bucket work and keep everyone else out
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 26, 2007, 04:01:19 AM
I've worked with the Military helicopters sans VHF radios, (most are great pilots-just no fire experience) We found the best way was to give them an area of thier own to do bucket work and keep everyone else out
I was flying "Helco" today with six blackhawks...Yes they leave a lot to be desired BUT, they did OK. They just need direction and a little understanding form us, as in, we do this for a living---for them its a once in a while deal. Once they got lined out and had someone show them EXACTLY where to drop and show them the line to fly...they were getting better. For "specific" targets, I will stilluse the regulars, but for "humidity raising" tasks they can help.
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Baradium on October 29, 2007, 08:53:59 AM
I actually turned my TV on now that everybody keeps talking about the fires and watched a few mediums drop water in the wind and it looked like it did nothing at all. You can't do much in these winds, you're totally right. Even if you hit the fire, the ambers will re-ignite it before you get back to the dip-site.
But keep in mind that this is also a political game. The public and especially the people who just lost their houses need to see that "something at least" is getting done. You can't order 30 helicopters and then have them all just sit there. It looks bad. We'll won't catch it until the wind dies down, but at least it looks like we're making an effort. See how that works?! ;)
Doesn't make me like it any more...
Risking people and equipment when you know it'll have no effect is stupid, regardless of the excuse.
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: PiperGirl on October 29, 2007, 05:35:25 PM
K, this is for all you fire pilots, what is your reaction to this article from AvWeb?
Quote
Fingerpointing Starts Over Firefighting Helicopter Delays
San Diego politicians say foot-dragging by state officials kept 24 firefighting helicopters on the ground for a full day last week, critically hampering firefighting efforts in the early stages as the blazes gathered strength. The helicopters, operated by the military, were grounded because a state regulation requires that all firefighting choppers have a "fire spotter" on board and there weren't enough available. By the time the helicopters were allowed to take off it was too windy for them to fly. On Wednesday the state waived the regulation but now the heat is on state officials to explain the delay in doing so.
"When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger," Dana Rohrabacher, a Republican congressman from California, told the London Daily Telegraph. Calif. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Saturday the state will review its policies. "There are things that we could improve on and I think this is what we are going to do because a disaster like this, you know, really, in the end is a good vehicle, a motivator for everyone to come together," he told a news conference. Two Air National Guard C-130s also sat idle because they haven't yet been retrofitted with fire-retardant tanks.
K, this is for all you fire pilots, what is your reaction to this article from AvWeb?
Quote
Fingerpointing Starts Over Firefighting Helicopter Delays
San Diego politicians say foot-dragging by state officials kept 24 firefighting helicopters on the ground for a full day last week, critically hampering firefighting efforts in the early stages as the blazes gathered strength. The helicopters, operated by the military, were grounded because a state regulation requires that all firefighting choppers have a "fire spotter" on board and there weren't enough available. By the time the helicopters were allowed to take off it was too windy for them to fly. On Wednesday the state waived the regulation but now the heat is on state officials to explain the delay in doing so.
"When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger," Dana Rohrabacher, a Republican congressman from California, told the London Daily Telegraph. Calif. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Saturday the state will review its policies. "There are things that we could improve on and I think this is what we are going to do because a disaster like this, you know, really, in the end is a good vehicle, a motivator for everyone to come together," he told a news conference. Two Air National Guard C-130s also sat idle because they haven't yet been retrofitted with fire-retardant tanks.
Well, I'm not a fire pilot, but I think this is politics at one of its low points. I have no idea how difficult it is to fly a helicopter in the conditions you encounter over a fire, but I think that it is a very good idea to have somebody in the cockpit who knows about firefighting. No offense, but the military pilots probably do not have very much experience regarding this kind of flying. Why should you risk the lives of pilots and millions of dollars worth of equipment? Just to make a political statement ? ::sick::
I hope this is not too unqualified / exaggerated or not fitting in any other way, but I cannot stand politicians who have no idea of what is going on (I hope that this is not true in this case, but I fear it is), but have all the solutions. If you really want to get me started just ask me about plans to shoot down hijacked airliners when they are to be used as weapons (something being discussed since 9/11 2001 here in Germany) . . .
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 29, 2007, 08:46:56 PM
Dana Rohrabacker is a brownie hound from the Los Angeles area who's looking to get his name in the headlines.
I remember him from 20 years ago when he was in city government in (I believe) Torrance CA. The man hasn't changed his tactics at all.
http://rohrabacher.house.gov/District/
If you check his website, you will see that his district is in Los Angeles and Orange counties along the coast and nowhere near any of the burn areas. He is simply shooting off his mouth about something he has no knowledge of. He would do well to ask a few questions before he goes to the press. The old phrase comes to mind, "Engage Brain before Starting Mouth." ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo::
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: G-man on October 30, 2007, 05:48:52 AM
K, this is for all you fire pilots, what is your reaction to this article from AvWeb?
Quote
Fingerpointing Starts Over Firefighting Helicopter Delays
San Diego politicians say foot-dragging by state officials kept 24 firefighting helicopters on the ground for a full day last week, critically hampering firefighting efforts in the early stages as the blazes gathered strength. The helicopters, operated by the military, were grounded because a state regulation requires that all firefighting choppers have a "fire spotter" on board and there weren't enough available. By the time the helicopters were allowed to take off it was too windy for them to fly. On Wednesday the state waived the regulation but now the heat is on state officials to explain the delay in doing so.
"When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger," Dana Rohrabacher, a Republican congressman from California, told the London Daily Telegraph. Calif. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Saturday the state will review its policies. "There are things that we could improve on and I think this is what we are going to do because a disaster like this, you know, really, in the end is a good vehicle, a motivator for everyone to come together," he told a news conference. Two Air National Guard C-130s also sat idle because they haven't yet been retrofitted with fire-retardant tanks.
The military are good at what they are trained to do----military stuff, NOT fighting fire. I was working Helco, (basically flying a person who controls the firefighting efforts from the air---just like airtac does---but we control primarily all the helicopters), with the military who were "grounded". During the morning briefing, they freely admitted that most of them had NEVER been near a fire, let alone fly on one.. Most of them had less than 1,000 hours--professional firefighting pilots are required to have a MINIMUM of 1500 hours to get carded, and most companies require more--the company I fly for had a 5,000 hour minimum and the lowest time pilot in the company has over 10,000 hours... The military guys had no clue about black line, head, heel, flank crowning--all normal terms we use. They needed to be "hand held" and follow a "regualar" pilot, even then, we were MORE effective without them. Dont get me wrong--they were great, and still are during the "less critical" phases and mop-up. I am sure I would get in their way if ever they need "fire fighting" pilots to go fight the war in Afganistan.
During the height of the battle, they would have got in the way, (too slow at dipping), and would have been detramental to the fire fighting effort, and would have been a safety hazard by not knowing simple things like the difference between "head" and "heel". During the critical phase of fighting a fire is NOT the time to have in-experienced pilots who need to be hand held flying around too low and "fanning" the fire.
Another way to look at is this---You need brain surgery, there are lots of "heart surgeons and physiciatrists around...would you let them perform the surgery????
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2007, 06:10:02 AM
Well said G-man!
There are a few things the agencies could approve on when it comes to being prepared and when it comes to politics. But fact is, you can't just have 24 helicopter from possibly 20 different agencies and contractors show up and go ride them into the flames without some kind of coordination, no matter how efficient or not-efficient it shall be. It won't work. And it turns out (again, after reading the posted article) that you can't have them just sit around either.... (I don't know what a "fire-spotter" is but I guess they are talking about helicopter managers.)
What grinds my gears a little on this fire is that this is not "the worst devastation San Diego has ever seen" as the media claims. In 2003 they burned waaaaay more houses and acres than this year. And people did not learn their lesson ! ! ! When I fly over this mess I always see the same pattern: 80% of the houses got burned because they had no "defensable space" around them. If you live in a fire-proned area, you need to clear out the brush around your house or there is no guarantee it will stand up against a fire storm.
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: PiperGirl on October 30, 2007, 12:33:17 PM
Thanks for the responses. It's so annoying when politicians just run their mouths with out having an accurate idea about what they are talking about. Then the media gets a hold of it and then it just goes more down hill. Glad I can get the real picture here ;)
Some areas seem to have a track record of not being the best places to live, but people still love living there. I guess the benefits always out weigh the side effects (until the natural disaters happen, then it's the governments fault... ::loony::)
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: Fabo on October 30, 2007, 05:30:43 PM
Then the media gets a hold of it and then it just goes more down hill.
Dont you even talk about the media!
God-damn people do make a terror landing on wrong runway hitting lightpoles passengers almost dying etc. ::knockedout:: >:( >:( >:( ::rambo::
from just simple hitting lightpole by wing on slow taxi shen parking (errr... we have new apron in here).....
Not any better than comments on the internet from i-know-all type of people.
Back to printed press, only ONE newspaper coming to my hand today have really written what happened. Most maked it that terror of plane stuff.
PS: Sorry for offtop, had to let it out and this place seems understanding :)
Title: Re: Beer Trivia
Post by: airtac on October 30, 2007, 11:54:51 PM
Well put Gordy and Mike both, |:)\
I gave a little talk recently to a group of wealthy home owners, all of whom live in urban interface areas, about fire safety. When you say defensible space to these people, they think in terms of 20 feet---they acted like they didn't believe me when I talked about 100 plus foot flame lengths and the pictures I have don't really show scale very well. They can't grasp the concept that it's not "if' but rather "when" the fire comes, how well are they prepared?
The politics will not go away, the media will continue to print misinformed speculation from moronic hacks, and people will continue to build houses in fire-prone areas (proving that wealthy and smart are not necessarily synonymous)---Egads, I'm happy to be retiring---Although the frustration level will still be there when I hear grossly exaggerated stories about grounded aircraft, ineffective fire fighting techniques, the need for more resources, (and airplanes flying backwards "all the time" ! ;) HA!)
