Roost Air Lounge => Aviation related topics => Topic started by: Frank N. O. on February 05, 2006, 03:07:53 PM
Title: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 05, 2006, 03:07:53 PM
I placed it here since it shows a level of helicopter manouvrering I never knew was possible, and a helicopter that seems to match the Gazelle and Lynx in manouvreability, a Bo-105 btw.
It's a stream from german tv, PRO7 with former Viva-TV (german music-tv station a'la MTV) presenter, comedian, singer/songwriter (with a weird sense of humour) and talk-show host Stefan Raab. This is from the segment Raab in Gefahr (Raab in danger) and formerly has shown him box the top german woman boxer, and getting beated to a pulp, trying to race the woman speedskate champion with a headstart, lost I think, or just won by inches. The pilote is one of three licensed professionals in Germany and have flown for a german action movie called Der Clown (The Clown) (and the first person in the middle is an actor and the person on the left in the start was the producer for that, and all three helicopter pilotes) as can also be seen on the Hummer H2. I guess you can easily see this Raab is a bit of a nutter as the british put it so fittingly but to give more info for those that don't understand german, the small paper bag in the inner pocket of the pilot before flight is just what you'd think it was, although it looks small to me but it was for the pilot, not that he needed it. The pilot explains some of the manouvres he will do, also just before take-off and Raab asks several times if he still has control of the helicopter after several physics-defying manouvres.
The stream can be seen here and I tested it just before posting, just wait a short while for it to load: http://tvtotal.prosieben.de/components/videoplayer/0698/0698-00-06-wm_midband.html?mode= It's a wmv stream-file btw.
I hope you enjoy it :) Frank
P.S. I chose this since I'm sure you've all seen the presenter getting buzzed by a Spitfire playing lawnmover but this being from Germany was more rare, aspecially since I gather that many here are from North-America.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: fireflyr on February 06, 2006, 12:10:11 AM
How do you say "I think I dirtied my underwear" in German?
That is the most spectacular helicopter display I've ever seen, hands down.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Stef on February 06, 2006, 12:14:34 AM
Oh my god!!! I didn't know you could do such things with a helicopter!!! Respect!
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: fireflyr on February 06, 2006, 05:02:35 PM
Mike, I didn't understand (of course) what the guy with the microphone was saying but he looked like he was talking s**t to the pilot, who it seemed to me, took great pleasure in getting Mr smart ass sick----was that kinda the gist of the conversation?
Give you any ideas how to handle smart asses on a helitac crew?
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Mike on February 06, 2006, 06:23:46 PM
i can't get the damn thing to play right >:(. all the computers here are too slow it seems.. i'll see if i can find a better machine somewhere. I really want to see it!
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: chuckar101 on February 06, 2006, 09:35:19 PM
Yeah you definately need to see that Mike. And I agree with Fireflyr, it does look like hes badmouthing. And you need to learn some of those moves, would be great to mess with a hotshot crew like that.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 06, 2006, 09:44:45 PM
How do you say "I think I dirtied my underwear" in German?
I think it goes something like "Ich denke das ich meine Unterhosen beschmutzt habe".
I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and I hope Mike can get it working. Try the direct stream-link, paste into WMP mms://wms.e-tv.de/tvtotal/2005/03/21/0698-00-06-wm_midband.wmv
Actually Stefan Raab isn't badmouthing the pilot at all but keep asking if he still has control (clearly concerned for his own safety), and that he (Raab) doesn't know where he is anymore (lost orientation). He asks for a pause early on, and in the end he nearly said the equiivalent of Holy Sh.. (Ach du Sche...). He's generally in a high-spirited jolly mood and not offensive at all but I can see why it can look like different, especially with such a calm collective pilot. I'll see if I can translate the main part so you guys can understand what he's saying.
I never knew a helicopter could do barrell-rolls that easily, or do a forward flip/roll or inverse loop if you will, or that insane downward spiral, rotors first! Btw, the hat isn't moving much but I think that's because this is a pilot that, how can I put it, makes the helicopter to most of the work and only perform adjustments, meaning he uses the aerodynamics and forces of nature to assist the manouvres, like g-forces and hence the hat isn't moving much, does that sound correct?
Frank
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on February 07, 2006, 04:53:45 AM
Looks like most of those maneuvers were positive G's. Very freaky video. :o
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: FlyingBlind on February 07, 2006, 06:59:28 PM
How do you say "I think I dirtied my underwear" in German?
That is the most spectacular helicopter display I've ever seen, hands down.
Ich glaube ich habe meine Hosen geschisst :)
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 09, 2006, 05:43:18 PM
That actually sounds more accurate than my translation, nice one.
Mike did you ever get the stream to work?
Frank
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Mike on February 15, 2006, 01:20:52 AM
WOW! :o I just saw the video. Respect !!
The guy isn't really talking $**t to the pilot. He sounds very nervous. He does give him a hard time about his white gloves though and then asks the pilot if he can get some too because they could come in handy to wipe the puke off his lap...
Did you guys notice that the little strings on his special hat never really move much? It's because the helo can't really do any agressive maneuvers and very seldom you feel any kind of g-forces. (I have a water bottle standing next to my seat and it hasn't tipped over ever....) The only time you would feel them in this video is when he pulls out of the loop. (technically it's not a loop either, you just pull the helicopter inverted and let it "fall through") he he "just" . . . . that's funny!
But there are very very few helicopters you can do this with. A Bell would loose the whole rotor-head if you tried this...
Cool stuff! I would be scared to do this. Red Bull is actually working on putting together a helicopter aerobatics team with two BO105's here in the states. They are in our shop right now. Hopefully they'll get going this summer and we'll see them at an airshow.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 15, 2006, 02:05:38 AM
Glad you finally got to see it! It's fantastic isn't it :D
About the hat then I also thought that the manouvres the pilot does are more working with mother nature instead of against her but that still looks scary as heck for the unknowledgable about helicopter performance, and appearently that knowledge is rare since normal helicopters can't do that. That reminds me of Blue Thunder where Malcolm McDonnel's (spelling?) character says it's aerodynamically impossible for a helicopter to do a loop, but the modified Gazelle does any in the movie (to my knowledge it actually did it for real but I'm not sure).
It seems you know the helicopter used Mike, how does that compare to the other super helicopters around, which to my knowledge list the Westland Lynx and the Gazelle? Does the BO105 have the so-called Fixed-Head rotor like the Lynx or is there another secret to it's fantastic manouvreability?
Frank
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2006, 05:10:34 AM
It seems you know the helicopter used Mike, how does that compare to the other super helicopters around, which to my knowledge list the Westland Lynx and the Gazelle? Does the BO105 have the so-called Fixed-Head rotor like the Lynx or is there another secret to it's fantastic manouvreability?
Frank
Well, I guess I would have to check into that. I am not sure what rotorsystem the BO105 has but I don't think it's a rigid one like the one of the Westland Lynx. I think it's actually what they call a "fully articulated rotor system" but I'll look at one in our shop. Could be that it's just great flying and knowing your machine...
The Lama is a pretty old system and is actually the grand daddy of the AStar (Ecureul for you Europeans). I don't know much about the Gazelle to be honest....
My buddy Roland who is also in the forum every now and them probably knows a lot more about this than me. I think looping a helo isn't all that complicated or too dangerous since it's a lot of positive g-forces but like I said, they "fall" through the loop and it's not like a loop an airplane would do. Negative G's can get you in trouble, especially with a semi-rigid rotorsystem like the Bells have (206, Hueys, and so on...) But this would get us deeeeeeep into rotor aerodynamics :P
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Roland on February 16, 2006, 06:57:46 AM
Right Mike, here I am
To answer the question of Frank: yes, the BO 105 has a rigid main rotor head and that is his main secret to do this kind of aerobatics. Rigid means there are no bearings between head and blade which are needed to operate a helicopter after all (to explain this now it is certainly too complex). The BO 105, as well as the Westland Lynx, does the “bearing work” within the blade-root-area.
This idea of a “stiff” rotor head gives the possibility of very quick manoeuvres, which are used for tank-attacking helicopters. It is developed at the late sixties, beginning seventies last century.
As Mike stated before all manoeuvres are flown positive, but a “stiff” main rotor head reacts very quick and allows some minus too. Modern helicopter have this kind of features (“stiff” rotor head) installed already, but in different ways. I have done a looping on an AS 365N Dolphin as a Co-Pilot. Eurocopter has a video of a Dolphin/Panther flying a looping and one can’t see the rotor blades even move out of track.
Mike states correctly that negative manoeuvres on helicopters with semi-rigid rotor systems are troublesome.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 17, 2006, 05:50:21 AM
Thank you both for the replies, it's a pleasure to learn more about these amazing machines :)
Is a loop in a helicopter really a loop or more like a backwards flip like an acrobat can do, or can it do both? From the sounds of your posts then it seems I guessed correctly that the german pilot actually worked with rather than against the forces for those manouvres despite the wild look of them, and that makes me happy that I could guess correctly on such matters, I love learning about such things :)
Btw is the Lynx (with special rotor-blades) still the record-holder for the fastest level flight in a helicopter at a little over 400 kph (250 mph)?
Frank
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Roland on February 17, 2006, 07:12:48 AM
@ Frank:
To fly a looping properly the aircraft needs speed. A fixed wing aircraft gets speed from its propulsion system, i.e. the propeller or the jet engine.
A helicopter does not have such kind of propulsion to create forward thrust but gets forward speed by tilting the rotor disk forward and therefore pushes the thrust of the rotor backward. Doing so the helicopter can stay in the air AND fly forward using only ONE propulsion, whilst the fixed wing stays in the air by using lift force of the wing AND thrust.
You see that to fly a looping properly with a helicopter one component is badly missing. Ether enough thrust or enough lift. And as you stated correctly a helicopter will more likely do a flip backward than a proper looping.
To the Lynx: have you ever seen this particular Lynx which hold the speed record? It is heavily modified! Try to find it on the internet, it’s worth a look. Helicopters are limited in speed due to the phenomena/problem of advancing and retreating blades during forward flight. So now there is math involved: the blade moving forward adds its tip speed, resulting from the rotational speed of the rotor, and the speed of the forward flight. Roughly we will gain around 950 km/h at the blade-tip. So what, you will say? Here comes an other famous Austrian into play: Ernst Mach. At this speed of the blade tip we will soon have Mach-speed. No good! Due to a huge amount of aerodynamic problems at this point of speed (Mach) this is the reason for a natural speed limiter of helicopters in general.
On the speed record Lynx engineers have tuned all systems to squeezed out some extra knots to hit the record.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on February 17, 2006, 06:52:21 PM
Prop tip speed can be a problem for fixed wing aircraft, as well. If I remember right, the P-51 had some trouble with that in a power on dive. If the tips of the blades slide into the transonic region, they will start to buffet and then shatter. Not a good day at the office. That's why you will never see a supersonic propellor driven a/c.
Anyone ever see Air Wolf? It was an awesome show in the '80's about a supersonic helicopter.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Mike on February 18, 2006, 03:56:28 AM
Anyone ever see Air Wolf? It was an awesome show in the '80's about a supersonic helicopter.
Hehe, yeah! That's as real as "Knight Rider" ;D I know some of the guys who flew in that movie... ..I am pretty sure they used special effects :D ;)
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on February 18, 2006, 04:45:30 AM
I loved that show. Wonder if it's on DVD yet...
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 20, 2006, 01:08:37 AM
Airwolf! Oh yeah I remember that. Modified Bell 222H although models were used for the folding out of the weapons though.
"When I hit this button, we'll go from zero to mach-1 in 6 seconds" (the episode with the kid that might be his brother's child but the man taking care of him was some criminal and ended up hanging on the nose-scoop over a deep canyon). I did take physics on high level when I got my danish mathematical student-exam (somewhere between US high-school and college educational level) but I can't remember the formula used to give g's from acceleration, but I'm sure it won't be pleasent to accelerate that fast, as if it could be possible that is.
I think I found the record-Lynx and an article showing what you described and the Lynx is shown underneath: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/design/helicopter/velocity.shtml
Speaking of fast helicopters and tv-shows, what about the helicopter/jet of the bad guy in MASK? It stopped the rotors, folded them back and lowered them behind a cowling and folded out wings and became a fast jet. Kind-of like the X-Wing concept they've played with in the real world for a few decades.
Frank
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Inept on February 20, 2006, 04:03:58 AM
I will preface this by saying that I'm a geek and was a physics major in college for a time. That having been said, I like saw what Frank posted about the speeds of Airwolf and was bored enough to work out the acceleration. ;D
using 340.29 meters per second as the speed of sound at sea level, plug and chug gives an acceleration of 5.79 times the force of gravity (g's)... which, atleast in the US, most newly certified aerobatic aircraft can withstand, as they're rated for a load factor of +6g.
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Frank N. O. on February 23, 2006, 10:30:32 PM
Ah ok, maybe it's not impossible to withstand anyway, however creating such an acceleration is probably another matter. Thanks for the math-work :)
Frank
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on February 24, 2006, 12:36:35 AM
Don't think helicopter blades can take that kind of acceleration. ;)
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: SteepTurn on June 04, 2006, 11:10:40 PM
Hy guys!
I just passed by to have a look at this topic. ...and I found a lot of veeeery interesting information.. also explained in a excellent manner!!! COMPLIMENTS!!!
That's why I love this forum!
btw: Stefan Raab, the crazy guy in the video invented also the world championship in bobsligh run with woks (the tipical cinese pan). He tryed to beat the record on a bobrun with one wok on his bottom and one on each foot.. afterwards another guy tryed the run with a rocket-wok.... at least he survived
find some pictures from the wok-championship: http://tvtotal.prosieben.de/components/gallery/05407/010.html
Title: Re: German helicopter-stuntflying video
Post by: YawningMan on February 21, 2007, 07:43:20 PM
Anyone ever see Air Wolf? It was an awesome show in the '80's about a supersonic helicopter.
Hehe, I remember seeing an episode fairly recently. (About 4 years ago.) It was an episode with a Piaggio Avanti. It cracked me up because the Avanti's engine nacelles were portrayed as being machinegun hardpoints in this particular episode.
