Author Topic: Seneca shopping  (Read 12636 times)

Offline Sleek-Jet

  • Rooster
  • ****
  • Posts: 312
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2006, 05:00:43 PM »

Thanks Mike, but the Seneca I flew was a low time airplane and even though I used fairly high cruise settings (32" MP & 2400RPM) I was careful about cooling the engines down---same thing with the Skymaster with the same engines.

Early on, as a pilot in light recips for Cal Air Freight (now Ameriflight), I was taught to reduce power settings at the rate of 1" MP per minute to avoid cooling the cylinders too rapidly, and that formula or it's approximation works well.   I try to plan descents so that I can trade altitude for power at that rate at least until the MP gets out of the turbo--around 20" or below.   Gentle cooling techniques work wonders with any recip engine and even when I'm running a turbine I still don't just yank the throttles back---(not goin'ta do it!--wouldn't be prudent!---G Bush Sr)



I'm liking the fireflyr guy more and more... :D :D that's the way I've always ran turbo engines and have never had a problem with cracked cylinders and what not.   

Since the Seneca II are turbo'd, spend alot of time looking at the maint. history and operating practices of the owner (if possible) during the pre purchase.  If they are swapping cylinders every couple hundred hours or so, they aren't running the airplane right.  Keep looking or be prepared to spend a little coin on the first couple annuals getting the engines in shape. 

I've got a little time in Seneca's, but my money would be in a same year Aztec... More room, (though you do give up the big door in back), no turbo's, fuel injected, and those big lycomings will last for ever if taken care of.  Of course, so will big Continetals, but the lyc's are more tollerant of ham fisted pilots it seems. 

I've also heard the Seneca's tend to wallow about a bit in turbulence, but never saw it myself. 

Good luck on your search.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 05:06:15 PM by Sleek-Jet »
A pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he's around airplanes, and airplanes when he's around women.

Offline Gulfstream Driver

  • Chicken Farmer
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2006, 08:50:59 PM »
Good luck on your search.

Thanks.  Just read an interesting consumer reports style article about Senecas.  Apparently, the turbos run all the time, whether you need them to or not.  That's why you find cracked turbo housings.  Seneca I's had a problem with tail flutter, but that was supposedly fixed with an AD.  The article was very confusing, saying the Seneca was one of the best light twins around, and then badmouthing the airplane in the same sentence.  Basicly, it sounds like the engines are fragile, but that's not the airplane's fault.  Gotta talk to Continental about that.  They do have numerous upgrades and mods available that help with engine performance and speed.

Don't know much about the Aztec, but I've heard they're scary.  Any thoughts?
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Sleek-Jet

  • Rooster
  • ****
  • Posts: 312
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2006, 09:09:38 PM »
Good luck on your search.

Thanks.  Just read an interesting consumer reports style article about Senecas.  Apparently, the turbos run all the time, whether you need them to or not.  That's why you find cracked turbo housings.  Seneca I's had a problem with tail flutter, but that was supposedly fixed with an AD.  The article was very confusing, saying the Seneca was one of the best light twins around, and then badmouthing the airplane in the same sentence.  Basicly, it sounds like the engines are fragile, but that's not the airplane's fault.  Gotta talk to Continental about that.  They do have numerous upgrades and mods available that help with engine performance and speed.

Don't know much about the Aztec, but I've heard they're scary.  Any thoughts?

It comes down to being eeeeeaaassssyyyy on things when flying a turbo'd motor.  I believe that the Seneca II's run a fixed wastegate, so you have to carefull about over boosting them.  Piper has always been cheep, and a fixed wastegate is light and simple, but requires the pilot to pay more attention to what is going on.  Run a little fuel through the engine also helps in keeping exhaust and turbo problems down, I don't care what the LOP guys say. 

Aztec's being scary??? Hmmmm... I got my multi in one and flew one for a while.  An honest airplane was my impression.  If you turn a blind eye to Vmc and blue lines, you can work them in and out of some pretty short strips, not the smartest thing, but it can be done.  Kind of like a twin engine super cub.   
A pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he's around airplanes, and airplanes when he's around women.

Offline Gulfstream Driver

  • Chicken Farmer
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2006, 10:31:27 PM »
Merlin came out with an automatic waste gate mod.  Supposed to really help with engine maintenance costs.  We did notice that the guys that run 23-25 gph got nicer maintenance bills.  The article used the Baron as a comparable airframe, and the Seneca is supposed to be a lot easier on the pocketbook.

Speaking of a twin Super Cub, have you ever seen a twin Citabria?  I'm not sure why you'd want a twin with fixed pitch props, but this is an interesting find, anyway. 


http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0409423/L/
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 11:39:52 PM by Gulfstream Driver »
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Jay512

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2006, 02:12:20 AM »
wow thats a neat little twin!  id love to take that to get my MEI in this summer
Their are OLD pilots and their are BOLD pilots; but there are NO old/bold pilots! - Some aviation book I read.

Offline Jay512

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2006, 02:18:58 AM »
i just did an FAA search on that twin Citabria:   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

N9931Y is Assigned


Assigned/Registered Aircraft

Aircraft Description

Serial Number    9                               Type Registration    Individual
Manufacturer Name  CHAMPION            Certificate Issue Date  04/16/2001 
Model  402                                         Status  Valid 
Type Aircraft  Fixed Wing Multi-Engine   Type Engine  Reciprocating 
Pending Number Change  None             Dealer  No 
Date Change Authorized  None              Mode S Code  53360132 
MFR Year  1963                                   Fractional Owner  NO 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Registered Owner

 Name     STEWART LARRY R 
Street  1331 PEACHBURG RD 
City  UNION SPRINGS  State ALABAMA    Zip Code     36089-6531 
County  BULLOCK 
Country  UNITED STATES 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Airworthiness



Engine Manufacturer   CONT MOTOR      Classification Standard 
Engine Model   0-200 SERIES                Category Normal        Utility 
         
        A/W Date 04/20/1963 
Their are OLD pilots and their are BOLD pilots; but there are NO old/bold pilots! - Some aviation book I read.

Offline Gulfstream Driver

  • Chicken Farmer
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2006, 02:43:35 AM »
Is that the only model?  Mr. Stewart has a valuable investment there. 

There's a guy in Fargo here that has the first Aeronca Chief ever made.  He wants $100,000 for it.
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Jay512

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2006, 04:53:16 AM »
Their are OLD pilots and their are BOLD pilots; but there are NO old/bold pilots! - Some aviation book I read.

fireflyr

  • Guest
Re: Seneca shopping
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2006, 01:36:54 AM »
I saw a Lancer at Napa County airport back in the 60s, it was barely an OK airplane when both engines were running but the single engine performance was pretty dismal because it had fixed pitch props---you could not feather the inoperative engine and as you all know a windmilling prop is equal to a 6 foot disc in drag (not the mini skirt type drag you pervert).
Truly an example of the second engine carrying you to the crash site.

Just one of those "what the hell were they thinking?" airplanes.

Jim