Author Topic: WX and decision making  (Read 21381 times)

Offline Plthijnx

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WX and decision making
« on: January 17, 2006, 06:46:53 PM »
I was called out yesterday to do some more relay work for an offshore helicopter company and with an approaching cold front due in that night around 9ish i was a little concerned but not really. mistake #1. around 5:30 i was released to fly back home, i had been stationed over the white lake VOR just southwest of laffayette louisiana and am based at la porte (east side of houston on the west bank of the bay). when i was about 40-50 miles east of beaumont the ceiling started coming down and the sun was setting so the visibility was deteriorating albeit still VFR. for those of you without an instrument rating, take what i'm fixing to say to heart. get one. i had my girlfriend with me and had been talking to her. well when i looked out the windscreen, what did i see?? nothing. i had flown into the clouds. no problem. immediately i called beaumont approach and told them my situation and got on a plan. my nav/coms were not very spiffy so i requested radar vectors through his airspace then on to la porte which he had no problem with. upon leaving his airspace to the west i cancelled the flight plan b/c i was VFR again. no problem i thought. we've got 25-30 miles to go and everything will be cool. uhh, nope. we get to the west side of the bay and i see a familiar ship yard on the left but no bridge on the right. the bridge i was looking for has high intensity lights on the top but to no avail. just inland there is a wall of clouds and rain from the surface up. i skirt around and decend to 500 over the water flying the shoreline to see if i could get in on a VOR approach but decided that since my com 2 was not up to par elected to go to another airport, baytown. with baytown in sight i get set up for landing. then on downwind, 1000agl the front hit and wham! once again i'm in the soup, low and slow. in your vfr training you practice hood work for a reason but in reality, an instrument rating will fair you much better in this situation. so anyway, i go throttle full and execute a climbing left turn to 180 degrees of course, (which actually happened to be heading 180). we broke out and when we did i turned and looked for the airport. it was totally obscured. the execution of the manuever took less time to do than to sit here and type this out. it was a fast moving front. now enter girlfriend and the infamous words "i'm going to be sick" she grabbed a bag from a burger joint we'd hit earlier and let it loose. Murphey's Law states here that there will be a hole in the bag so the floorboard of the warrior was painted some. we ended up flying back across the bay to an airport that i knew would be well clear of the front, landed and called my boss to come get us. about 10 minutes later the front hit the airport with wind so strong the rain was going sideways and shaking the building that we were in. weather, especially fronts are nothing to toy around with. if your not trained or not up to your own personal standards the results can be disasterous. i had called wxbrief to give them a pirep of what i'd just seen and been through and the briefer informed me that at Geo. Bush (IAH) they had had gusts of 45kts upon the passage of the front. it was an interesting night. oh, and one more thing. fly the airplane! don't turn a non emergency into an emergency. stay calm and fly the plane. there will be plenty of time later to be nervous. tune out what you have to and focus on the situation at hand.
The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and a good bowel movement. The night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities in life to experience all three at the same time. - Unknown

Offline Gulfstream Driver

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2006, 09:15:25 PM »
Good advice.  Your instructor would be proud.  Glad you made it down ok.

It's always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, then in the air wishing you were on the ground.
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Plthijnx

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2006, 09:47:40 PM »
yeah, no doubt. and i told my g/f that saying today as a matter of fact....

as soon as i take care of a few things around the house i'm going to go back and complete my cfi/cfii/mei training even though i'm almost to the hiring minimums of the pro's.
The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and a good bowel movement. The night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities in life to experience all three at the same time. - Unknown

Offline Mike

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2006, 02:12:30 AM »
This is some very good advise Texas!
I will pass this on to my former students.

I always tell them the IFR rating is the best rating you will ever get. Even if you don't use it much like me. But I did run into the clouds once flying offshore with the helicopter and the 180-climbing-turn came naturally I have to say. No sweat at all. But if I wouldn't have had the rating... who knows?!

Here is where it comes in handy flying a helicopter ;)
Just land somewhere and wait it out! ;D
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Offline Mike

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2006, 02:13:45 AM »
PS: this would almost fit better in the "there I was" section, wouldn't it?
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Offline Plthijnx

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2006, 02:53:26 AM »
yeah, i had that as an afterthought......you can move it, ya know! in fact i was going to ask you to do that anyway..... :)
The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and a good bowel movement. The night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities in life to experience all three at the same time. - Unknown

Offline Mike

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2006, 03:17:20 AM »
wow, I did it. (brag)

I hope people don't get lost and keep responding to this one.
It's very important to me I want to underline again....
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Offline SkyKing

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 07:54:51 PM »
Some years back, there was a guy who took off with his family aboard and went overdue.

We talked to his flying buddies, each of whom swore that even though he was IFR rated, if there was a cloud in the sky, he would go back and land.  It took three days to find the wreckage.

He spent the last 2-1/2 hours of his life in thunderstorms WITHOUT TALKING TO ANYONE ON THE RADIO.  If he had, maybe he would have adjusted his altimeter and not run into a mountain 50 feet below the crest.

Okay, so maybe he was too stupid to live, but he took innocents with him, and that is INEXCUSABLE.

Sometimes we get pushed to show how we're great, brave, hotshot pilots.  I show that by being brave enough to say "I don't like the weather and I'm staying on the ground."

It is much better for your plane to follow an ELT signal than for it to be the source of one.


fireflyr

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2006, 01:47:49 AM »
Some years back, there was a guy who took off with his family aboard and went overdue.

We talked to his flying buddies, each of whom swore that even though he was IFR rated, if there was a cloud in the sky, he would go back and land. It took three days to find the wreckage.

He spent the last 2-1/2 hours of his life in thunderstorms WITHOUT TALKING TO ANYONE ON THE RADIO. If he had, maybe he would have adjusted his altimeter and not run into a mountain 50 feet below the crest.


Good story and it points out a perception problem common among private aviators, that is, they get the rating but they "save it for emergencies" so they won't go out and do some flights in IMC to get proficient and then one day when they do need it----well, they just wander around for 2 1/2 hours in thunderstorms and hit that mountain 50 feet below the peak.
I believe that if you have the rating you should be out there in the clag (with a senior pilot or instructor, if necessary) doing some actual flying.   There is nothing wrong with flying single engine IFR on purpose, in properly calculated situations so there are adequate "outs" if needed.   IFR flying is NOT magic, is Not dangerous, and is NOT just for super pilots !  I am always happy to ride along with any pilot who just wishes to get some experience, hell, I don't even charge them anything if they're budget aviators (broke like me).   These people are not stupid, they are under-informed and it's up to those with experience to share that experience without being condescending.   Just because we have the experience is why we should be the first one to give some insight to a neophyte without making him/her feel like they're talking to God's reason for pilot wings.   If even the finest and the greatest (Scott Crossfield comes to mind--and I certainly mean no disrespect) can screw the pooch, I sure as hell am not going to ridicule someone like JFK JR, who was certainly a victim of poor decision making, caused perhaps by poor instruction or  poor mentoring.

Offline fliboye

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 08:56:35 AM »
that which does not kill us makes us stronger and smarter. or say WOW I won't do that again ;)  I always find it humbling when navigating in the not so nice weather to pop out the other side of a line of weather and then look back and say why did I just fly through that, Thats why we get paid the big bucks(LOL). hehehehehehe ;D
I got into aviation because it was fun now I'm stuck cause I need the money ;-))))

Offline SkyKing

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 04:55:46 PM »
Some years back, there was a guy who took off with his family aboard and went overdue.

We talked to his flying buddies, each of whom swore that even though he was IFR rated, if there was a cloud in the sky, he would go back and land. It took three days to find the wreckage.

He spent the last 2-1/2 hours of his life in thunderstorms WITHOUT TALKING TO ANYONE ON THE RADIO. If he had, maybe he would have adjusted his altimeter and not run into a mountain 50 feet below the crest.


Good story and it points out a perception problem common among private aviators, that is, they get the rating but they "save it for emergencies" so they won't go out and do some flights in IMC to get proficient and then one day when they do need it----well, they just wander around for 2 1/2 hours in thunderstorms and hit that mountain 50 feet below the peak.
I believe that if you have the rating you should be out there in the clag (with a senior pilot or instructor, if necessary) doing some actual flying.   There is nothing wrong with flying single engine IFR on purpose, in properly calculated situations so there are adequate "outs" if needed.   IFR flying is NOT magic, is Not dangerous, and is NOT just for super pilots !  I am always happy to ride along with any pilot who just wishes to get some experience, hell, I don't even charge them anything if they're budget aviators (broke like me).   These people are not stupid, they are under-informed and it's up to those with experience to share that experience without being condescending.   Just because we have the experience is why we should be the first one to give some insight to a neophyte without making him/her feel like they're talking to God's reason for pilot wings.   If even the finest and the greatest (Scott Crossfield comes to mind--and I certainly mean no disrespect) can screw the pooch, I sure as hell am not going to ridicule someone like JFK JR, who was certainly a victim of poor decision making, caused perhaps by poor instruction or  poor mentoring.

"If in trouble, or in doubt, fly triangles, scream and shout!"

My first lesson in instrument flying involved a max-performance climb to the plane's service ceiling.  The lesson?  "Most of the ratty wx is DOWN THERE.  The rocks, towers, wires and buildings are DOWN THERE.  And we're UP HERE, and from UP HERE we can make our way around the bad stuff and talk to a lot of people with radios and radar, who want nothing more than to see us land safely."


Offline fliboye

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 04:53:23 PM »
 I once was jumpseating on a an AAirlines flight out of miami when the first officer said weather what weather, it is not whether or not your going but whether or not you are going to get in. ::)
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Offline cj5_pilot

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2006, 02:01:32 AM »
Dean Eicholtz, they check pilot that gave me my final checkride for my Private had an interesting theory on weather.  It was simple:  If the weather looks iffy, have a beer.  No flying for eight hours after that!  Never had to use it myself--I don't scud run.  Still and all, an interesting theory.

The average pilot, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

Offline Baradium

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2006, 04:59:05 AM »
Dean Eicholtz, they check pilot that gave me my final checkride for my Private had an interesting theory on weather.  It was simple:  If the weather looks iffy, have a beer.  No flying for eight hours after that!  Never had to use it myself--I don't scud run.  Still and all, an interesting theory.



In Alaska, VFR weather isn't "iffy" until it's below 500 ft ceiling.   500 and 2 is VFR weather...  ;)
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In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
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fireflyr

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Re: WX and decision making
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2006, 03:31:18 PM »
Dean Eicholtz, they check pilot that gave me my final checkride for my Private had an interesting theory on weather.  It was simple:  If the weather looks iffy, have a beer.  No flying for eight hours after that!  Never had to use it myself--I don't scud run.  Still and all, an interesting theory.


"I don't scud run"---GOOD philosphy!!! Try never to compromise your limitations no matter how tempting it is. |:)\
We had a scud running RV6 try to move a mountain last week attempting to get into Petaluma, he ducked under a 500 fog layer but unfortuately there was a 600 foot hill between him and the airport---scratch 1 nice airplane and 2 nice people! :-\