Author Topic: Way low KC-135  (Read 19574 times)

undatc

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2006, 09:38:27 PM »
WELL! T  he PHd is entitled to his opinion, the still photo sure makes it clearer.
As far as wake turbulence blowing dust from a 400 knot airplane @ 100 feet---only in hollywood ::rofl::
And the noise level---take a look at the nacelles, the original low bypass engines have been replaced and I'll wager a quart of Southern Comfort that high-bypass engines set to a low cruise setting (as in a diving pass) would be a mere whisper (comparatively)   My degree in Bovine Scatology and 50 years of watching airplanes gives my opinion just as much weight as the professors ::cowboy::

Actually you should see some dust etc, or even wind from the wake turbulence.  Have you seen the dryden test center photos from nasa on their studies on wake turbulence?  They arent even using a heavy and its really impressive video/pictures of how the air moves etc.  You should see some dust/wind in the trees from this and there isnt any.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2006, 09:43:10 PM by undatc »

Offline happylanding

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2006, 09:44:21 PM »


**Edit**
On closer look, it looks like that tail flag is of the Swiss Air Force.  Looking on Wikipedia, there are currently a few countries that operate KC-135's, the US Air Force, Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, Israel ,Italy, Morocco, Singapore, Spain, South Africa, Turkey, & Venezuela.  Other models were sold to many other countries, but those are the only ones using it as a tanker.  And the one in the shot is a tanker, as you can see the refueling boom.

Also, The KC-135 was modified to the KC-135Q/A to serve the blackbird, only 56 were made.



the flag is Swiss, without any doubt. the point is, what the hell is swiss military doing in the desert somewhere? we have Alps here!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2006, 09:46:44 PM by happylanding »
I give that landing a 9 . . . on the Richter scale.

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2006, 09:47:49 PM »
This is supposedly a french KC-135, look at the tail symbol, it's clearly not the swiss flag.


Frank
« Last Edit: December 31, 2006, 09:49:23 PM by Frank N. O. »
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

undatc

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2006, 09:49:10 PM »


**Edit**
On closer look, it looks like that tail flag is of the Swiss Air Force.  Looking on Wikipedia, there are currently a few countries that operate KC-135's, the US Air Force, Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, Israel ,Italy, Morocco, Singapore, Spain, South Africa, Turkey, & Venezuela.  Other models were sold to many other countries, but those are the only ones using it as a tanker.  And the one in the shot is a tanker, as you can see the refueling boom.

Also, The KC-135 was modified to the KC-135Q/A to serve the blackbird, only 56 were made.





the flag is Swiss, without any doubt. the point is, what the hell is swiss military doing in the desert somewhere? we have Alps here!!!!


Haha, true that.  The bigger quesetion is where the hell did the swiss get a KC135?  As far as i could find we never sold any to them.

And here is a link to the dryden video, sorry it is a havey, C5 Galexy

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/C-5A/HTML/EM-0085-01.html

Offline happylanding

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2006, 09:49:49 PM »
I was just correcting it. I made the movie larger and could not see the flag anymore. at least.......well.....I will not add anything else! :)
I give that landing a 9 . . . on the Richter scale.

Offline happylanding

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2006, 09:52:15 PM »
But the ones in the back of the still picture......they are definitely swiss! those ones at least!  ::rofl:: ::rofl::
Okay. my aircraft recognition is quite toooooo poor!  :-\
thanks Frank!
I give that landing a 9 . . . on the Richter scale.

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2006, 09:56:42 PM »
There you go http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0501733/L/

About the dust storm then maybe it's a hard surface? Not all kinds of dirt/sand flies equally easy.

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

undatc

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2006, 10:02:42 PM »
There you go http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0501733/L/

About the dust storm then maybe it's a hard surface? Not all kinds of dirt/sand flies equally easy.

Frank

Thats an interesting pic of the KC on the runway.  The refuling tube is hanging not in the usual rolled up position.

Offline Panzerrat

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2006, 10:06:49 PM »
I'm actually kind of amazed that the French aren't using a modified Airbus of some sort.  Of course, why spend development money when there is a fully functioning, reliable tanker already on the market.
"You call this bad? I'll tell you what bad is....Bad is passing test depth at 80 feet per second with a thirty degree down bubble. Compared to that, this is a walk in the park.”

Offline Baradium

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2006, 10:25:30 PM »
I had trouble getting the video to play... would go partway through then stop.

Anyone else have problems?
"Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I stand my ground, and I won't back down"
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fireflyr

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2007, 05:18:58 AM »
WELL! T  he PHd is entitled to his opinion, the still photo sure makes it clearer.
As far as wake turbulence blowing dust from a 400 knot airplane @ 100 feet---only in hollywood ::rofl::
And the noise level---take a look at the nacelles, the original low bypass engines have been replaced and I'll wager a quart of Southern Comfort that high-bypass engines set to a low cruise setting (as in a diving pass) would be a mere whisper (comparatively)   My degree in Bovine Scatology and 50 years of watching airplanes gives my opinion just as much weight as the professors ::cowboy::

Actually you should see some dust etc, or even wind from the wake turbulence.  Have you seen the dryden test center photos from nasa on their studies on wake turbulence?  They arent even using a heavy and its really impressive video/pictures of how the air moves etc.  You should see some dust/wind in the trees from this and there isnt any.
Ok folks, lets take a deep breath and think---This KC 135 is traveling every bit of 400 knots, without dragging out my E6B that's in the neighborhood of 625 feet per second (estimated)---that's 2 Yankee football fields in UNDER 1 second. ::unbelieveable::   
The maximum vortice produced by an aircraft is at lift off because  the wing's angle of attack at rotation is very high thus producing a large quantity of slow air moving lengthwise and spilling off the wingtip to produce the a large vortice typically seen in dust tracks (pretty much the same thing on approach and landing but the airplane is much heavier at takeoff and we all know that heavy, slow airplanes produce the largest strongest vortice)   ---think about that---
As the aircraft increases speed, the flaps and slats are retracted and the AOA decreases and less vortice is produced so that at high cruise speeds the vortice is much smaller and weaker. ::thinking::
Now look at the NASA footage posted by undatc, a dirty C-5 in landing configuration passes over a 100 foot tall smoke tower at about 200 knots OR SLOWER (300 feet per second)  at between 4 and 500 feet,  The smoke coming from the top of the tower (roughly 300 feet below the A/C)  is not affected in a major way until about 3 to 5 seconds (9- 1500 feet) AFTER A/C passage and don't forget that a slow C-5 has an extremely strong vortice! ::)

NOW, take another look at the KC135 low pass--the camera is aimed at the airplane and cannot capture any dust blowing hundreds of feet behind it--remember the vortice disturbance is small because of the speed and low AOA and is also farther behind the airplane because of the speed----You ARE NOT going to see any wake distubance from those angles.  ::sleep::
 In hollywood, when Clint Eastwood flies a Soviet fighter over the snow at Mach 2 you will see snow flying directly under the airplane as it goes by BUT, that's hollywood kids--it doesn't work that way in real life. ::silly::

After more views and Franks stop  action picture AND the aforementioned facts I am now inclined more than ever that this is a balls out low pass by some folks having fun in a dangerous way at taxpayers expense ::rambo::

If anyone can PROVE me wrong, I'll send you that bottle of Southern Comfort, till then, I'm listening. ::whistle::

« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 05:26:47 AM by fireflyr »

Offline Panzerrat

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2007, 05:56:53 AM »
Even though I agree with you, I'm tempted to find verifiable information to disprove everything you've just said for that bottle of SoCo.
"You call this bad? I'll tell you what bad is....Bad is passing test depth at 80 feet per second with a thirty degree down bubble. Compared to that, this is a walk in the park.”

fireflyr

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2007, 06:15:38 AM »
Even though I agree with you, I'm tempted to find verifiable information to disprove everything you've just said for that bottle of SoCo.

SHHPOKEN LAK A TRU SAALER! ::drinking::

undatc

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2007, 09:37:45 AM »
I dunno, i still think its not real.  I just have a hard time thinking a pilot, and his crew members too, as they carry 3 people, would be this stupid to fly a multimillion dollar airplane, not to mention how much avgas to potentially that close to the ground.

Though, we are talking about a pilot here...

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Way low KC-135
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2007, 09:49:20 AM »
Ok I'll try to get my observations tested. Jim, where do you get 400 knots from?
The plane seems to have it's engines at low power/revs, there's almost more windnoise than jetnoise which could further explain the lack of dust (low thrust), especially if it didn't use flaps.
From watching then it seems to me that the plane only moves a few times it's own length per second, although this was hard to check with that videoplayer. According to US mil factsheet it's just over 41 meters long so let's just say it does 100 meters per second, that's only 360 kph or around 195 knots which would also explain the lack of dust and how they could be so close right? Also note the faint but visible black smoketrail from the jet engines at the very end of the video.

Btw, can I get some flight training instead of that wine? :D

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci