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Author Topic: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"  (Read 12490 times)

Offline undatc

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2010, 05:00:59 AM »
Oh I'm not saying there is an issue with taking off, what about the landing part of the flight?

Yes I'm sure you could ideally refuel mid air, but the whole concept of this program is a quick launch in the event of a surprise attack that destroys your runway, at your base, and I would suspect other bases in the area. 

Even at best speeds, tankers could be several hours away.  Launch at full throttle, kill the bad guys, get to a safe safety, then hopefully have enough gas to either meet the tanker or land potentially several hundred or thousand miles away. 

Seems like a hole in the plan, but maybe its just me.
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Offline Lt.Fubar

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2010, 06:53:18 AM »
As the system was developed for war in Europe - the landing part is not an issue:

1. Mid-air refueling - tough one for the USAFE jets since the Phantom II as that one and all new use rigid boom system and require big tankers, for air forces not using F-16s here, many other aircraft could be used as tankers, some even wouldn't need a runway for takeoff and landing (C-130).

2. For a fighter jet you actually need less space for landing than to takeoff - in US jets the arrestor hook is present since the F-104, even though meant for emergences it will stop a jet in few hundreds feet - a space that could be a part of the air base that was intact, and was inspected after the attack - it could be a taxi way, or even a ramp. Some European made jets were purpose build to have very short landing rolls - like the Panavia Tornado and the Saab Viggen that actually had thrust reverser.

3. Civilian airports are less likely to be completely destroyed by conventional attack and long taxiways would be suitable to receive military aircraft

4. At the time the eastern block didn't had any deep penetrating munition, that could be used to heavily damage the airstrip, like the western 1000lb / 2000lb BLUs and Durandals so most damage would be superficial and could be repaired in less than an hour, giving the engineering equipment would survive the first strike.

5. Throw a stone, and you'll hit a foreign speaking neighbor, chances are high, that he could be neutral in that particular conflict... although that's a one way trip, the military aircraft landing at foreign - neutral airstrip would be interned, and would not be allowed to take off again.

6. Roads, in Europe many were build wide enough, with lane dividers, lights etc that could be easily taken apart, with long straights with big parking areas - all specially made to become a makeshift airstrip. The Sweden excelled in that aspect, so did the West Germany with their autobahns of which 70% could be used in this fashion.

http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/72/Hercules_C130_landing_on_Autobahn_DoD_DF-ST-84-09441.jpg
http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/65/A-10_Thunderbolt_II_takeoff_on_Autobahn_DoD_DF-ST-85-05084.jpg
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 07:07:48 AM by Lt.Fubar »
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Offline Fabo

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2010, 02:58:33 AM »
Many roads in eastern bloc have been designed in that fashion.One particularly known is near Vyskov in Czech Rep. There are several more in the highway system of the Czech rep, as well as other eastern bloc countries. I have seen such for ex. in Bulgaria. Plus there are or were many normally unused runways specifically for the possibility of opening a makeshift airbase there, complete with radio navigational equipment.

This is how NDB looks like:



and this is what RSBN looks like:




and while we are at it, a bit low on quality, picture of MG23 on highway.

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Offline Lt.Fubar

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2010, 07:22:06 AM »
Those were build all over Europe, east block, or west, the idea was the same. For example, here's a map of Poland, that would be dated 1990:
Map

The triangles are "DOL" (Drogowy Odcinek Lotniczy) - the "highway strips", officially there were 21 in total, all having straights of more than 2000 meters (6500ft), some reaching 3300m (11000ft), all were build in the same way as typical military airstrip (same design and materials), all able to accept every fighter jet of the east (MiG-31 included), and transport aircraft. Bombers, except for Su-24 would not land here.

There are not many left today though, I use one for winter driving practice - one that is actually not on that map, it's 2400m long, 30m wide, the road uses actually only 800m of the strip, so I have a mile to play with practicing driving on snow and ice ;)

During the cold war scramble take off was something that was practiced religiously, up to the point that very risky maneuvers were incorporated, for example the MiG-23 used as interceptors could evacuate base in less than 5 minutes, and we're talking about 30+ aircraft here, from airbase that had only two runways. Both runways and taxiways would be used for take off, simultaneously, getting all the planes in the air in a matter of seconds, the jets would takeoff in pairs from runways, crossing each other paths by wingspan length... no margin for error.

Believe it or not, the nuclear strike was not a concern ;)
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Offline Busdriver

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2010, 08:42:43 AM »
Altough in german, here's an article from a german website with some fotos:

http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/artikel/41-luftwaffe-luftfahrt/113-autobahn-notlandeplaetze-nlp.html

Also in Switzerland there were some strips, but they're remodelling them when there is construction work to do.

Two pics from another forum:



Some pilots put a speedtrap there so everybody received a letter from the police  >:D
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Offline Fabo

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2010, 04:17:10 PM »
Quote from: Lt.Fubar on December 09, 2010, 07:22:06 AM
During the cold war scramble take off was something that was practiced religiously, up to the point that very risky maneuvers were incorporated, for example the MiG-23 used as interceptors could evacuate base in less than 5 minutes, and we're talking about 30+ aircraft here, from airbase that had only two runways. Both runways and taxiways would be used for take off, simultaneously, getting all the planes in the air in a matter of seconds, the jets would takeoff in pairs from runways, crossing each other paths by wingspan length... no margin for error.

Hell yeah!

Especially second part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUPjoRnC1LM

Oh, I forgot to mention, MiGs could also use some grass fields (reinforced) as provisional airfields. My home airport Kladno is one of such.
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Offline Ragwing

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2010, 04:01:47 PM »
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Offline G-man

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2010, 04:23:49 PM »
Problem is....y'all are using the wrong aircraft to land on the road.. ::whistle:: ::whistle:: ::whistle:: ::whistle:: ::whistle::

We do it all the time:

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Offline Ragwing

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2010, 10:08:45 PM »
Quote from: G-man on December 12, 2010, 04:23:49 PM
Problem is....y'all are using the wrong aircraft to land on the road.. ::whistle:: ::whistle:: ::whistle:: ::whistle:: ::whistle::

We do it all the time:
G-Man,
Normally fixed wing aircraft don't land there - Too many wires, but in the Puget Sound (Washington State) we fly IFR all the time.

I Fly Roads!!!
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Offline Chopper Doc

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2011, 01:19:43 AM »
Poor stiff-wing drivers, always trying to emulate the cool kids in vertical lift.

You're not really flying unless you can hover - anything else is just throwing yourself at the ground and missing.

[doc ducks and runs for the exit]
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Offline Oddball

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2011, 04:16:12 PM »
Now this is where I would of thrown a Harrier Jump Jet at you Doc...............................but we don't have them any more  :(
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Offline Chopper Doc

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Re: F-100 "Zero Length Launch"
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2011, 04:27:15 PM »
Yeah, and we (Canadians) never had them.

Too bad, but then we don't have carriers to operate them from either.
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