Thinking of buying a C-172...

[Mike]

Ok guys, I just spend 4.5hrs driving to Vegas where my fiance lives and it's entirely too much to do every week. She has a pretty good job which she would be stupid to quit and my job could be seasonal so we are thinking of moving in together in Vegas. Since all my work starts a airports I could just commute easily by plane IF I could afford one. Of course it would be a "Chicken Wings" plane with a crazy paintjob and all.

Soooo, I am thinking of buying a Cessna 172P if I can get one for a reasonable price. What do you guys think my costs would be per month not including gas and oil changes (I am an A&P so I can do all that myself)? ? ? 
 Just thinking annual, materials, insurance, tie-down fees, and basic operating costs for a P-model...

Any thoughts?

[Frank N. O.]

You in a stuckwing? ROFL
Seriously though, I understand it and stuckwings are better for long-distance flights to my knowlege. Didn't remember you were an A&P, that's really practical and must be pretty nice to know how the things work and how to check yourself also, not that you shouldn't have trust in the workstaff of course, especially not someone like Roland 

Having the Chicken Wings Roost-Air paintjob on it would be totally cool though! And then have a life-size stuffed Chuck in the passengerseat

Frank

[Sleek-Jet]

Figure about 3 times the cost of fuel burn per hour to cover all the expenses (insurance, tie down/hanger, parts, ect... you know, fixed costs).  Maybe a little less since you would be doing all the maint. and such.

Figuring an 8 gal/hr fuel burn, times 4.00/gal would be 32.00/hr, multiplied by say 2 (since you won't be paying a mechanic) = 64.00/hr operating cost.  That would be "wet"... 32.00/hr for just the fixed costs.

I'd round that up to 40.00/hr just to be on the safe side. 

[Mike]

How much did your insurance cost?
Tie down could be expensive too, huh?

How much fixed costs would you think I would have when the plane never moves:
Insurance, Tie-Down, Annual (since I HAVE to get one every year), and aircraft payments....

Is $600 a month reasonable?

[Sleek-Jet]

I paid a little over a 1000.00 a year in insurance, but it would have been less if it would have just been myself.  My partner was a realitevly low time pilot without an instrument ticket.  Call AOPA's insurance number and ask for a quote on a 172, they should be able to get you close to what you'll pay.

Tie down around here runs about 50 a month for a single engine. 

Budget a couple grand for the annual.

Figure about 300/month if the airplane never moves without the payment.

How much and how long you are going to finance will dictate the rest.

My suggestion is look at a 172M model.  It's got the 150 hp Lycoming, and will be about 10K less than a comparable P model.  The fastest 172 I've ever flown was a 1975 w/ the 150

[fireflyr]

Mike, asking friends and pilots about this is fine but the best advice will come from a aggressive tax consultant.  With Chicken Wings and with your flying career there are many times you need the added mobility only a privately owned airplane will provide.  DO NOT think this advice is given frivolously, I am dead serious!  The tax savings alone can easily pay for 30% or more of the actual cost of the airplane but the deal must be structured carefully and that's when you need the tax consultant---not necessarily a CPA either (most times they are too conservative).    The purchase and use of an airplane will be very easy to justify for both of your business needs and the record keeping will be simple as all flights are logged anyway.
The best advice I was ever given was to learn how to LEGALLY shelter my income and that advice has made me more money in the last 10 years than I made working the previous 35 years. 

[Gulfstream Driver]

Find a bank that specifically finances aircraft, as well.  Your friendly neighborhood Wells Fargo won't have a clue and will charge you an arm and a leg, if they'll even finance you at all.  If you can't find anything close to you, let me know.  We deal with an excellent bank in Halstad, MN that loves to deal with airplanes.  I believe either the president or the manager is a pilot.  I'll send you the info and contact numbers for them.

[Sleek-Jet]

I went through AOPA (I'm sensing a patern here... ) for my financing, it was painless.  I wish buying a house was that easy.

firflyer is right about the tax implications, it's more than worth your time to go talk to someone.  I was strictly a private owner, so there was no tax savings on my part for owning an airplane.

[Plthijnx]

also, typically when you buy fuel from an FBO they'll let you tie down for free....short term parking and such.....

[Mike]

Thanks for all the good advice guys.
I have a pretty good Tax guy who knows his way around aircraft as well. Another friend of mine is using his helicopter as a tax-write-off and he has the same CPA.
I will definetly figure this out BEFORE I buy the plane.

Now I just have to decide on a plane.
172M, huh?!

How fast does this one cruise?
I used to work on one in my mechanic days but only flew it once and can't remember (again...CRS)
Isn't the M-model the one that has more flap travel than the P-model?

Also Thanks for the AOPA route Sleek. I'll get in touch with them. It seems to be the way to go to me.

[Plthijnx]

i just walked out and looked at one of our 172M models, it's got 40 degrees of flap travel. i'm not sure but i think the P model only has 30 degrees. as far as the speed goes, they're roughly the same.....

[Plthijnx]

Mike, are you that fixed on a cessna? you can get a warrior (160h.p.) for about the same price and have similar expense costs. or even perhaps an Archer. 180 ponies under the cowl=more airspeed!!

[Mike]

Check out this one:

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprotected/specs/35372.html

And no, I am not set on a Cessna.
BUT Cessnas are what I worked on most when I was a kid and I am most comfortable with as an A&P.
And they are easier to fly (in case my fiance wants to fly it. She started taking lessons before but chickend out before her solo)

How much faster is an Archer?
I do want a plane to get me places.
I found Piper to need more maintenance than the Cessnas though...

[Plthijnx]

that's not a bad looking bird!

uhhmm the speed, well lemme go look i can't remember right off the bat. just came back in from helping the other Mike work on the stabilator berings on uh, our warrior  to cool off. i'll look in the POH and let you know. i think it's around 110 or so, but that's just an unejumakated guesstimate. ok, so i forgot to hit post. the checklist calls it 135mph indicated. and somedays i've gotten more out of her....now, back out in this heat and humidity to work on the warrior.....

[Sleek-Jet]

You've got lots of options when looking for this type of equipment.  Don't discount the Grumman Cheetah, I've grown rather fond of those.  Very good speed for the power.  And you get to fool everyone on unicom when you announce your position as "Grumman 1234, 10 east for landing"... Everyone expects a GV to show up.