Author Topic: Controller Shortage?  (Read 12311 times)

Offline Frank N. O.

  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
  • Spin It!
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2006, 03:40:19 PM »
At EKRK (Roskilde Airport, the secondary Copenhagen Airport) an aircraft weighing under 2000 kg (aka 2.0 metric ton or 4410 lbs) is charged 10.50 USD per take-off. If it's a schoolplane making touch-and-goes then after the first landing there's a 70% rebate, reducing the fee to 3.15 USD. (calculated from the danish homepage prices in DKK and using the latest exchange rate from DKK to USD).

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Gulfstream Driver

  • Chicken Farmer
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2006, 05:06:18 PM »
10 bucks just to land?!  That highway robbery!   :)
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Frank N. O.

  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
  • Spin It!
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2006, 05:12:53 PM »
Mike wrote what it cost in Austria when he learned to fly, and that was 1/3 of this, what's the price in a GA airport in California or some other compareable place? It almost read in Mike's post as it was free for some planes.

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Mike

  • Supreme Overlord
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3385
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2006, 05:35:27 PM »
Landing is free in CA almost anywhere. Some fancy places like Santa Monica and such will have ramp fees but that's it.
Not bad, huh?!

Hey Ted:
I read some of the FAA budget (it did make me a little sleepy as well) and they talk about hiring 500 or so controllers this year. However, they still have 2,500 or more retiring soon as it says in the link of my first post. Of course it doesn't say that in the FAA document. I stick with my statement: SCARY !!
Dear IRS: Please cancel my subscription.

Offline Ted_Stryker

  • Chicken Farmer
  • Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 443
  • Never Forget 9/11/2001
    • Cyber Forensics
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2006, 05:42:54 PM »
Landing is free in CA almost anywhere. Some fancy places like Santa Monica and such will have ramp fees but that's it.
Not bad, huh?!

Hey Ted:
I read some of the FAA budget (it did make me a little sleepy as well) and they talk about hiring 500 or so controllers this year. However, they still have 2,500 or more retiring soon as it says in the link of my first post. Of course it doesn't say that in the FAA document. I stick with my statement: SCARY !!

I agree!  They are trying to increase available budget via reductions through attrition.  I don't dispute they are reducing the numbers of controllers, just pointing out that they have not really had a true budget cut as they claim in their attempts to justify the attrition reduction initiative.

We're on the same page, Mike :)

We're going to have to come in pretty low!  It's just one of those things you have to do... when you land!  -- Ted Striker - Airplane!

Offline Mike

  • Supreme Overlord
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3385
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2006, 07:46:40 PM »
Oh yeah, I knew we are on the same page.
I was just trying to point out that both sites show a decrease of controllers, and the fact that they're cutting people although their budget hasn't been cut is even more scary isn't it?!?!?
Dear IRS: Please cancel my subscription.

Offline Ted_Stryker

  • Chicken Farmer
  • Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 443
  • Never Forget 9/11/2001
    • Cyber Forensics
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2006, 07:50:56 PM »
Oh yeah, I knew we are on the same page.
I was just trying to point out that both sites show a decrease of controllers, and the fact that they're cutting people although their budget hasn't been cut is even more scary isn't it?!?!?

Absolutely... especially in light of the projected increase in all air traffic levels... commercial, military, and GA.

We need a nailbiting smiley I think!   :(    I just hope that the FAA is actually working towards things with safety in mind... but I think that our fear is well founded.
We're going to have to come in pretty low!  It's just one of those things you have to do... when you land!  -- Ted Striker - Airplane!

Offline Mike

  • Supreme Overlord
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3385
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2006, 07:52:45 PM »
This was part of an email I got the other day. It had to do with Katrina and that stuff but it applies here as well:

>
> v A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
>
> v A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
>
> v A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
>
> v A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.
>
> v A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the >rate our government is spending it.
>

And the FAA is spemding 13.78 billions this year
Dear IRS: Please cancel my subscription.

Offline Mike

  • Supreme Overlord
  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3385
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2006, 01:58:02 AM »
Here is another scary one written by an ATC controller.
It caused quite a stirr in the AOPA forum since there are pilots being pissed off because they have a hard time raising ATC on the radio and FAA guys getting all worked up because of these pilots. Wow!
It's a Frank-length post but it's well worth reading it.
PLUS the little link is pretty cool!

Friends,

I hope you guys can download the link below. Think your airplane is
the only one up there? Think again. Notice at 30 seconds, the severe
weather (in red) covers Memphis airport, aircraft begin holding, and
the ones running out of fuel head to their alternate airports. Taking
three strings of airplanes going 400+ mph and putting them into a nice
line so you can jam them into an airport that is about to close is
quite impressive. To do it with thunderstorms takes skill, practice,
and steely nerves. I am fairly certain that this controller left
work that day with a headache. Our job is fun sometimes. This wasn't
one of them.

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/ThunderstormFedex/


Last summer, our union, NATCA, and the FAA started negotiating a new
Contract. The last one was signed in 1998. On the day before
negotiations started, the appointed head of the FAA, Marion Blakey,
used taxpayer money to fund press conferences around the country
telling the American people that their controllers are overpaid and
underworked. On April 5, Blakey took advantage of a provision that
allowed her to send her last offer to Congress. If they do not act
within 60 days, then she gets to IMPOSE her pay and work rules on Air
Traffic Controllers. Knowing this, she had NO incentive to negotiate
with us in good faith. FAA declared impasse (or stalemate) on April
5th at 3:04PM. At 5:00PM, she submitted a 300 page last-offer
document to Congress, right before they left on a two week Easter
break. So, instead of sixty days, they only had about forty six.
Smart? Maybe. Telling of her character and true 'bad faith'
intentions? Definitely. Up until 3:04, the FAA was still obligated
to negotiate in good faith by trying to reach a voluntary agreement.
While NATCA worked through the night Tuesday to offer even more pay
concessions, the FAA was instead preparing their submission to
Congress to start the 60 day clock before they left town.

On June 5, the new and unimproved work rules and pay cuts will serve
as a disincentive for retirement-eligible controllers to continue
working. There were 15,300 U.S. controllers two years ago. Under
Blakey's leadership, there are now 14,300. By 2007, 4000 controllers,
hired en masse after the 1981 strike, will be eligible to retire By
2011, over half the work force (8000) will be eligible. Five years
may seem like enough time to get ready; however, it takes about three
years to get a controller fully certified. NATCA believes pay cuts,
stricter dress codes, and other work rule changes guaranteed to lower
morale even further will exacerbate current staffing problems by
convincing veteran controllers to turn in their headsets. Speaking of
dress codes, do you care if that Memphis controller was wearing jeans
or even shorts and a golf shirt, or is it that important that he was
wearing dockers and a button down? Obviously, we like being
comfortable when we work.

What does this mean to general aviation aircraft, airlines and their
passengers? Well, take away the Dallas Cowboys' right tackle and a
wide receiver and see how many points they score. Take away the
right tire changer on a NASCAR pit crew. Send two DEA agents to bust
up a drug ring when they really need four. Cut the number of firemen
at your local firehouse by a quarter. You won't notice....unless
there's a fire. Tell the surgeon who is about to do that by-pass that
he has to work with one less nurse. Don't backfill when your
Assistant Pastor leaves and demand the Senior Pastor provide the same
level of service.

The FAA is trying to do more with less. That's an OK business model
unless, of course, your business happens to be safety. The FAA has
bragged about staffing their supervisor ranks at 100%, while the
controller ranks are staffed at about 86% and dropping, partly because
they promote their supervisors from the controller workforce. MORE
supervisors watching FEWER controllers work MORE airplanes. Makes
sense to me! For now, controllers are good enough to make it work,
but you can only stretch a rubber band so far before it snaps.

The FAA wants the public to believe this is all about money. Of
course, money is always part of any contract negotiation, but it is
also about what happens to the system if you give a large group of
controllers a disincentive to stay. Although I'd like to keep my
current salary and get the same cost of living adjustments that all
federal employees receive, my family can and will adjust to a pay cut
just like many Americans do every day; however, like all controllers,
I am forced to retire at age 56. Many people can continue earning a
good salary into their sixties. I cannot.

Controllers are NOT asking for a penny more than we get now. In
fact, in the last few days of negotiations, NATCA offered $1.4 Billion
in salary cuts over the five year contract, while the FAA "moved" from
$1.9 Billion to $1.9 Billion. Again, NATCA moved $1.4 Billion in a
desperate goodwill attempt to reach a voluntary agreement, and the FAA
moved zero. They claim they need the money for equipment upgrades.
In Texas, we have a term for that explanation, and it starts with
"bull." This is all about exerting their control over the people who
keep you safe and trying to break their union, a union by the way
which was at the forefront of every successful implementation of
equipment and procedure upgrade from 1998-2004.

On 9-11, controllers did something we've never trained for or even
discussed, the clearing of U.S. airspace. In about two hours,
controllers landed 5000 planes without a single incident. In 2005,
controllers in New Orleans worked around the clock coordinating
thousands of rescue flights even though some of them had lost their
homes. They slept whenever the could, wherever they could. In Baton
Rouge and Lafayette, controllers worked almost four times their normal
traffic levels for weeks. Controllers from Florida, Texas and across
the South took annual leave to rush to the scene bringing food, water,
portable toilets, etc. to help keep the operation going. During Rita,
Beaumont and Houston controllers stayed on duty while their families
evacuated. Time and again, controllers have come through for the
American people. Now, we need you to come through for us and your ATC
system.

If you are interested in helping...
Call 1 877 FAIR FAA. You will be connected to your Senator. Tell
them you want them to support Senate Bill 2201 which will restore
fairness to the FAA and NATCA negotiating process.



Go to http://fairfaa.com and click on "FairFAA" to send an EMail. It
might take three minutes to do both.



Senate Bill 2201 guarantees us nothing but a fair shake. It simply
says that if the two sides reach impasse and Congress does not act,
the Parties go to Binding Arbitration. It would take away the FAA's
disincentive to negotiate in good faith. There are currently a
majority of House members who have co sponsored the bill, including
about 60 Republicans; yet, under White House pressure, Speaker Hastert
refuses to allow it to come up for a vote. In the Senate Bill, we
have about 40 co-sponsors, but there are others who say they will
support it if it comes up for a vote. That is where your phone calls
can help.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The following is a current snapshot of most of the airplanes in the
United States. Click on during a weekday late morning or afternoon.
This doesn't include VFR aircraft and most other general aviation
aircraft, which would probably add about 30%. It will give you an
idea of what is going on up there. When you are comfortably seated on
your next flight, think about us, because I can promise that we're
thinking about you.

You get from Point A to Point B safely because of professional
controllers, pilots, mechanics and other workers, not because of
Marion Blakey.

http://www.natca.org/flight-explorer/united-states.aspx



Feel free to forward this message to anyone who flies.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 02:00:02 AM by Mike »
Dear IRS: Please cancel my subscription.

Offline Frank N. O.

  • Alpha Rooster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
  • Spin It!
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2006, 09:32:08 AM »
Let me get this straight, that's an honest post about the general situation for ATC's and pilots at AOPA just got mad at the poster? That sounds very wrong to me. I already think that the controllers are doing a massive job and have already heard about the increasing need for new controllers but this seems to describe a situation even worse than I thought it was :(

Did I read it correctly that the person that's supposed to speak the case of controllers actually made it worse for them and don't understand the real need and concentrate on parts of the job that's not at all the critical parts, like dress-code instead of workinghours that a human can actually tolerate and pay you can live off?
Seriously, a dresscode, they're on the radio and yes I think they should be comfortable as long as they are descent since it could only help comfort for them at thereby concentration and thereby safety so a dress-code sounds like they (the leaders) are trying to give a good image to the public in areas that are totally unimportant and in the situation as it is will actually spend critical energy and funds to the exact wrong place and I doubt a nice shirt will decrease anger from lack of good controllers or controllers making a bad job due to sheer exhuastion due to their living and working conditions.

I wish I could help but since I'm not an american then I don't have a senator to call :(

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Roland

  • Cockerel
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Controller Shortage?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2006, 04:41:37 PM »
I don’t know where this all is going to. In Europe we have this problem already for a longer time period. People and services get cut back and the remaining have to take over the work of the people thrown out. But for less money and with the sword of Damocles over their necks to be lucky to still have the job and to be sacked at any time.

So no wonder there is no motivation amongst the young people to enter the wide field of aviation. Especially into the responsible but invincible jobs. In other threads there is the discussion about cost of flying. Here in Europe flight-control had to be privatised years ago by the decision of the European Commission. Now guess what happened.

Sometimes I think there are well-paid people doing their best to kill aviation. Our EASA at least is some steps ahead of the FAA and proud of it. My job at the moment is to train young boys as mechanics. But I also see the idiotic things “competent” authorities (EASA term. Competent in my understanding also has to do with “be able to …”) do just to hinder this attempts.

We in Europe have nobody to call. Those things happen in anonymity somewhere in Strasbourg or Brussels. Quietly. 
If helicopter flying would be difficult, engineers would do it.