Author Topic: Modern Instrument-panels  (Read 16757 times)

Offline Ted_Stryker

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Re: Modern Instrument-panels
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2006, 05:03:53 PM »
Ahh, now I know what’s in that big, box shaped, leather pilots bags.  Flashlights. Now it makes sense to me…  :D

The oldest pilot with the largest flight bag when he dies WINS!   ;D  ;D  ;D
We're going to have to come in pretty low!  It's just one of those things you have to do... when you land!  -- Ted Striker - Airplane!

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Modern Instrument-panels
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2006, 12:09:39 AM »
Roland: Lol, good one!

And about the bags, it's now how big the bag is but what you have in it!
ok maybe not a good one but I just wanted to keep a good thing rolling, that makes me wonder btw, are there any flight-bags so big they have wheels at the corner like those big plastic-suitcases you haul after you at the airport? That would be funny :D

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Modern Instrument-panels
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2006, 06:11:41 PM »
I was wondering, how much work is it to retrofit a plane's panel, even with using modular instruments? I know they have to be tested but how complicated is it to install new instruments and probably also make a new panel to mount them in? Does it need to be tested or just inspected before the plane is legal again? I wondered this after seeing the difference between a old Rockwell Aero Commander 112 and a facelifted Commander 115 panel and while the basic shape was the same then the isntrumetns and buttons were arranged a lot better in my opinion, also interesting to see a plane with electric cowl flaps instead of a lever. Oh yeah that reminds me, is it possible to mount a different throttle-lever, for instance one that was bent slightly back so it's easier to reach? Or maybe some other knobs on the levers.

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Ted_Stryker

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Re: Modern Instrument-panels
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2006, 06:37:58 PM »
I was wondering, how much work is it to retrofit a plane's panel, even with using modular instruments? I know they have to be tested but how complicated is it to install new instruments and probably also make a new panel to mount them in? Does it need to be tested or just inspected before the plane is legal again? I wondered this after seeing the difference between a old Rockwell Aero Commander 112 and a facelifted Commander 115 panel and while the basic shape was the same then the isntrumetns and buttons were arranged a lot better in my opinion, also interesting to see a plane with electric cowl flaps instead of a lever. Oh yeah that reminds me, is it possible to mount a different throttle-lever, for instance one that was bent slightly back so it's easier to reach? Or maybe some other knobs on the levers.

Frank

Well, I'm not a mechanic of any kind, but I can tell you what I know from my work here at Boeing, and having seen other projects done by people.  Anyone with first-hand experience, please feel free to correct any misstatements by me please!

First, how much work is it to retrofit a plane's panel.  ... answer... depends on the plane, and what the differences are in the new instruments being put in versus the originals.  For instance, if there is going to be a new instrument put in that has different electrical requirements, obviously you have a lot more work ahead of you potentially.  Same could be true of vaccuum based systems where hoses may be aged and in need of changing out, etc.  If the physical dimensions of the new instruments are different than the old, it could also mean work on the panel's structure itself.  As for inspections and re-certification, I'm not sure... so some A&P AI folks... please speak up! :)

I will say that one really can't easily do a mod where you change a steam gauge Cessna to a G-1000 panel.  There's just too much of a difference between all the electrical systems, network, and sensors to make such a mod undertaking viable compared to just buying the plane that way in the first place.  Future panel upgrades, however, on such G-1000 or similar systems is often going to be more a matter of inserting a new circuit card, and downloading new software, than physically changing out a panel component unless it's a Flight Directory input panel, or, a standard G-1000 DU with a newer right-side DU with AP built in for the MFD.  Even there, it's "plug and play" on the new systems practically.

Is it possible to mount a different throttle lever... yes... but that too may require potentially extensive rework.  On a Cessna, for instance, it might be a tougher job, whereas on a Piper, where the levers are interconnected differently with internal linkage arms, it might be an easier undertaking.  I'd also be wary of changing the knobs on levers to any non-standard shapes.  Part of a pilot's training is to be able to identify the type of lever by feel alone for the sake of safety.  For instance, the throttle lever is usually a smooth round knob.  A mixture control is usually a ridged red knob right next to the throttle.  A flap control is usually a flat, rectangular switch, or a handle similar to an emergency brake on a car.  And a gear lever is usually a vertically mounted disc that feels reminiscent of a tire... for obvious reasons.  These kinds of standard shapes have come into use over the years, and works very well to help in contingent circumstances.  In fact, during training, a flight instructor may give the prospective pilot the "blindfold test", where you have to indentify what you are touching by feel and placement alone.

Of course... given enough time, will, money, and resources... anything is possible :)
We're going to have to come in pretty low!  It's just one of those things you have to do... when you land!  -- Ted Striker - Airplane!

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Modern Instrument-panels
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2006, 10:15:11 PM »
One of things I had in mind was replacing old analogue instruments with newer ones with a different design and maybe some smaller ones for the the engine to get them out of the back of the yoke and still have space for radios and navigation like I've seen on the new Commander 115 vs the old 112/114's.

The handles were more since some planes like the Commander have all 3 main levers right next to each other  and they are all equally tall so I was wondering if they were at risk to get pushed if moving one of the other ones. I did suspect there was a std. in at least colour and knob-shape for the three lever-knobs since they all seemed identical on a lot of different GA planes but the knob was mainly a more grip-friendly one for the throttle but of course it's not for sure it's needed, I need to try them out before I can decide that, and after a nice sunny drive to Roskilde Airport and looking at several planes taking off and landing I can't wait.

I was wondering, why are plane-seats so flat? Is it because they are too thing to have a semi-bucket-shape? While planes don't corner like a car then I for one would still appreciate sitting in the seat instead on a flat bench, and so would my back btw. Besides needing to look at weight and having tested fire-retardent materials what other concerns are there to replace airplane seats in a GA plane?

Thank you for the replies :)
Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Gulfstream Driver

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Re: Modern Instrument-panels
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2006, 05:43:51 PM »
Be careful about making engine instruments too small.  You still have to see them.   :)

The handles are all the same height so you can find them without having to look.  You shouldn't have to worry about them running into each other unless you have ginormous hands.  :)  They're spaced so that won't happen. 

Can't speak about the seats, except that most seats are 30 years old.  That's probably why they're uncomfortable.
Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes.  --Bruce Almighty

Offline Frank N. O.

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Re: Modern Instrument-panels
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2006, 08:22:38 PM »
True, that's a good concern about the instruments, but it's not like it seems the square instruments behind the yoke on the early Commanders, and many other period planes, compared to the more compact ones on the right of the main instruments on the new Commander 115 models.

The quesiton about the length of the levers is also that other planes have varied lengths, specifically the throttle higher than the others but I guess a ton of my questions could be answered within 5 minutes of having access to a real plane, even just on the ground with the engine off.

Good point about the seats. I remember the seats in my dad's old 84 Ford Fiesta Diesel vs the 89 Ford Orion's and the current 01 Peugeot 206 and they were/are all base family-models.

Frank
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
— Leonardo da Vinci