Roost Air Lounge => Aviation related topics => Topic started by: Baradium on January 02, 2007, 06:12:58 AM
Title: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 02, 2007, 06:12:58 AM
Alright, maybe someone will have an idea of what this is.
The other night we're flying back from Anchorage and I notice what initially looks like an airport beacon. Except it's a constant light, just alternating white, green, and red. It appeared to be well off in the distance and stayed pretty much just ahead of or off the wingtip. It did appear to move back and forth (from just above the wing to ahead), but that may be due to minor course changes the aircraft was making. It was very obviously above the horizon, but not high in the sky.
Last night (New Year's Eve) I flew with one of the senior captains who normally flies this route. He said he's seen it for a few years now. It's not always in the same place, but at the same times of day it is. Of course, you can't always see it when there are high clouds.
Any clue what this thing is?
Oh, and check this out: http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=1933986&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.1.1
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: undatc on January 02, 2007, 06:19:08 AM
Aliens.....
Dunno, could be a marker for a buliding or antenna of some sort. I was in Seattle (actually alki beach for those of you that know Seattle) and was looking across the bay at the bulidings and noticed that not all the bulidings have the red aviation markers. Some actually had green and blue lights on top.
Arent airial baloons marked by lights? Could be that.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 02, 2007, 06:49:05 AM
Dunno, could be a marker for a buliding or antenna of some sort. I was in Seattle (actually alki beach for those of you that know Seattle) and was looking across the bay at the bulidings and noticed that not all the bulidings have the red aviation markers. Some actually had green and blue lights on top.
Arent airial baloons marked by lights? Could be that.
It's not on the ground, and it stays in a consistant area at this time of year based on what kind of day it is. But it doesn't move as you move. We went 300 miles and it was in the same place on the wing. Plus it's constantly alternating. Nevermind that Alaska doesn't exactly have very many buildings. It moves during different times of the day, so I don't think a balloon is very likely. I could definately see the horizon below it, and we were in the flight levels. That'd be quite a tall tower! It was a really bright light. Was brighter than most of the stars in the sky. That's the other thing, the captain thinks it maintains a constant position relative to the stars...
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: undatc on January 02, 2007, 07:56:45 AM
It's not on the ground, and it stays in a consistant area at this time of year based on what kind of day it is. But it doesn't move as you move. We went 300 miles and it was in the same place on the wing. Plus it's constantly alternating. Nevermind that Alaska doesn't exactly have very many buildings. It moves during different times of the day, so I don't think a balloon is very likely. I could definately see the horizon below it, and we were in the flight levels. That'd be quite a tall tower! It was a really bright light. Was brighter than most of the stars in the sky. That's the other thing, the captain thinks it maintains a constant position relative to the stars...
Eh, probably Aliens.
When I said balloon i wasnt thinking like manned. I was more thinking like unmanned, teathered balloon. Maybe for weather or something. Anything listed on the sectional? What about calling FSS and asking if anything is registered in that area?
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: G-man on January 02, 2007, 11:52:22 PM
Stupid question maybe but:
1. It did appear to move back and forth (from just above the wing to ahead), but that may be due to minor course changes the aircraft was making.
2. We went 300 miles and it was in the same place on the wing.
The atmosphere can play some pretty cool tricks with light. Look at the whole Northern Lights phenomenon.
Your sure its not your own beacon and nav lights reflecting in the atmosphere?
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 03, 2007, 05:16:08 AM
1. It did appear to move back and forth (from just above the wing to ahead), but that may be due to minor course changes the aircraft was making.
2. We went 300 miles and it was in the same place on the wing.
The atmosphere can play some pretty cool tricks with light. Look at the whole Northern Lights phenomenon.
Your sure its not your own beacon and nav lights reflecting in the atmosphere?
Was too far off in the distance. Also, the colors were alternating constantly. Our beacons are white so the red light would have come from the opposite side of the aircraft (pretty darn unlikely!)
undatc: I was thinking the same lines as far as what you meant. But I don't know what kind of balloon would put off that pattern of light. Wasn't the correct pattern for any airport beacons either.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: tundra_flier on January 03, 2007, 07:22:27 AM
Sounds like a planet. I believe it's venus that appears to change colors as you watch it. Mars always appears red.
Phil
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: undatc on January 03, 2007, 08:15:37 PM
Could be that, i dont remember much form my astronomy merit badge, but i know planets change colors. Though they are very small in the sky, and im not sure how they appear up there, but i know here they are in the middleish of the sky.
What about a helicopter doing something? Maybe he ferries something thing out at that time or i dunno. I revert back to ET.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 03, 2007, 09:55:11 PM
I have no clue guys. The captain said he decided it must be a supernova or other star doing something weird. A planet could be feasible I guess.
I honestly thought it was an airport beacon at first, because I gained sight of it on climb out. Then it became clear it was above the horizon and I realized the color pattern wasn't right.
I also don't see how a helicopter could put out such a pattern.
This light was pretty darn bright. It seemed brighter or as bright as any of the stars int he sky, and at 20,000 ft over Alaska, the stars are petty bright themselves! (not much light pollution in Alaska). The moon was also bright enough to read by (litterally).
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: undatc on January 03, 2007, 10:15:13 PM
Haha, just saw the UFO sighting.
Could be jsut swamp gas and mirrors. Light of your wing, or light of a house, refracting or something. You say it happens this time of year, in the same spot? Could it be christmas lights? Someone maybe hoisting a star or something up in a tree.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Panzerrat on January 03, 2007, 10:44:47 PM
I'm going with the planet idea. The fact that it never really changed its aspect angle to the plane hints that it's hell and gone. As far as the shifting of colors? Call it atmosphereics affecting the light.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 03, 2007, 11:04:49 PM
Could be jsut swamp gas and mirrors. Light of your wing, or light of a house, refracting or something. You say it happens this time of year, in the same spot? Could it be christmas lights? Someone maybe hoisting a star or something up in a tree.
Well, it changes position relative to time of day as well...
I don't know it's not there year round... but during summer you don't see the stars, because it doesn't really get dark. ;)
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: switchtech on January 04, 2007, 05:14:59 AM
Give me the actual date and time and I'll run a chart of the sky from Anchorage to try to identify any potential objects - also the direction the object was (a rough guess is OK here).
jbs
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 04, 2007, 07:40:55 AM
That would have been Saturday I believe between 7 and 10 pm (would have to look at the flight log to get more specific, don't remember which flight I did that day).
Direction would be southeast, maybe eastsoutheast by southeast... maybe eastsoutheast too...
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: switchtech on January 05, 2007, 02:06:08 AM
I put a little page up with star charts so you can look at them and decide if the sky looks the same. I think Sirius is a good potential candidate for your mystery light, but as I didn't see it, I'll leave that determination up to you.
http://switchtech.us/StarBeacon/SkyBeacon.htm
JBS
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 05, 2007, 03:57:05 AM
I put a little page up with star charts so you can look at them and decide if the sky looks the same. I think Sirius is a good potential candidate for your mystery light, but as I didn't see it, I'll leave that determination up to you.
http://switchtech.us/StarBeacon/SkyBeacon.htm
JBS
I thought Sirius was radio? ;)
Looks like Sirius could definately be a great candidate for it. I don't think I tried to take a picture, next time I'll definately try to.
I'd never seen a star changing colors like that before, was really something else.
Room mate saw it the other night coming from Galena to Fairbanks. He said it really looked high on the horizon to him, of course that's at 25,000 ft.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: switchtech on January 05, 2007, 11:55:01 PM
In a warm or turbulent atmosphere the stars flip colors like that close to the horizon pretty often. Regarding the thing being higher up a few days later, remember that a given star rises above the horizon about 4 minutes earlier each day. And of course altitude of the observer makes a big difference. Once well away from the horizon the colors should stabilize (though it might have some color shift and twinkle even high up).
jbs
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 06, 2007, 12:42:50 AM
In a warm or turbulent atmosphere the stars flip colors like that close to the horizon pretty often. Regarding the thing being higher up a few days later, remember that a given star rises above the horizon about 4 minutes earlier each day. And of course altitude of the observer makes a big difference. Once well away from the horizon the colors should stabilize (though it might have some color shift and twinkle even high up).
jbs
Keep in mind that it gets weird up here closer to the poles. I don't believe the stars in the big dipper ever go *under* the horizon this time of year. Once it's dark enough to see stars it's already there and then it almost just rotates.
It seemed well away from the horizon when I saw it too, in both cases still had the obvious color shift. I think it's also interesting that these specific light is known to seemingly always make this light shift.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 06, 2007, 12:46:20 AM
In a warm or turbulent atmosphere the stars flip colors like that close to the horizon pretty often.
Warm?
I'm in Alaska. ;) It's 30 degrees below zero right now! I mean, it's really dry so it only feels like 30 above or so (I still like this better than 40 degrees in GA, about the same as 50 degrees there), but it's still -30 for flat temperature. ;)
Although, we get major temperature inversions near the surface around here, not so much down towards Anchorage though I don't believe...
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: undatc on January 06, 2007, 08:19:27 AM
In a warm or turbulent atmosphere the stars flip colors like that close to the horizon pretty often.
Warm?
I'm in Alaska. ;) It's 30 degrees below zero right now! I mean, it's really dry so it only feels like 30 above or so (I still like this better than 40 degrees in GA, about the same as 50 degrees there), but it's still -30 for flat temperature. ;)
Although, we get major temperature inversions near the surface around here, not so much down towards Anchorage though I don't believe...
Isnt it possiable with a strong temperature inversion that it could be warm. Relativly speaking. Im not saying its gonna be 70, but at whatever height you were at it could have warmed up 10 or 20 degrees and that could effect it.
And im completely lost on those star map things, guess ive been out of astronomy too long.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 06, 2007, 08:37:15 AM
At altitude it's about 40 below still... we're still at 21,000 ft. But it's not going to be too far from that at the surface in some areas. In this case it was like 10 degrees above in the Anchorage area. In Fairbanks it was 0 to 10 below.
Right now it's 30 below and I can't get my truck started... put a charger on it and hope it starts tomorrow... otherwise this doesn't bode well for cold spells...
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: switchtech on January 06, 2007, 07:08:30 PM
In a warm or turbulent atmosphere the stars flip colors like that close to the horizon pretty often.
Warm?
I'm in Alaska. ;) It's 30 degrees below zero right now! I mean, it's really dry so it only feels like 30 above or so (I still like this better than 40 degrees in GA, about the same as 50 degrees there), but it's still -30 for flat temperature. ;)
Although, we get major temperature inversions near the surface around here, not so much down towards Anchorage though I don't believe...
Well, warm is a relative term. But the air only really needs to have movement and some temperature difference.
jbs
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 07, 2007, 03:27:11 AM
We can have pretty substantial changes. It can be 30 degrees warmer in the hills around Fairbanks than in town.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Baradium on January 08, 2007, 10:11:11 AM
Sunday night, Jan 7th. 9:15 PM AST, 70 miles north by north by northwest (magnetic) of the Anchorage VOR (349 degree radial, direct line between ANC and FAI VORs). The light was at a position of approximately 120 degrees magnetic from the aircraft. I tried to take some pictures, but it'll be a few weeks before I fill that camera and get it developed.
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: Gulfstream Driver on January 08, 2007, 05:03:24 PM
You're still using film? ::eek::
Title: Re: What am I seeing?
Post by: YawningMan on January 12, 2007, 07:14:14 PM
35mm is still superior to digital, IMO. I will admit, digital has come a long way, but I think you'll be paying more for the quality. Then again, professional grade 35mm cameras are not very cheap, either.
Now, if you're just talking about a disposable camera, well... You can't beat the price, anyway.
