Roost Air Lounge => Aviation related topics => Topic started by: Mike on September 17, 2011, 02:49:56 AM
Title: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Mike on September 17, 2011, 02:49:56 AM
Holy crap! Have you guys heard!???
I am totally devistated! :-\ :'( :'( :'(
Just this morning Stef and I were talking about how we didn't post any Reno strips and how we could have dropped the ball on this. Now I am kinda glad we didn't do any hillarious Reno stuff because it suddenly isn't funny anymore....
This may be the end of one of the greatest aviation events in history....
My heart goes out to all of the friends and families of all those victims...
|:)\ |:)\ |:)\
shots facing West ::drinking::
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: The Sumsum on September 17, 2011, 04:04:20 AM
RIP Mr. Leeward, you are a hero.
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on September 17, 2011, 06:00:09 AM
Horrible news. It appears Leeward may have lost his elevator trim tab, which would have induced a high speed flutter (speculation). I have been reading on other forums that pilots flying behind him reported seeing debris coming off his airplane before he lost control.
A sad day. I hope and pray they don't shut down the races for good, but I won't be surprised if it happens. This is what caused the Cleveland Air Races to be cancelled back in the 1940's
RC
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on September 17, 2011, 06:13:59 AM
Copied from another forum, and said to be taken at Reno. Another still photo I saw of Galloping Ghost right before impact showed the tailwheel extended. It indicates some major structural damage occured seconds before he hit the box seats.
RIP Jimmy Leeward, and my condolances to those who lost loved ones in the box seats.
RC
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Oddball on September 17, 2011, 10:32:08 AM
I've heard that YouTube have taken down a video that was posted about the crash.
Facing west :'(|:)\
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Oddball on September 18, 2011, 10:19:09 AM
Has any one heard about the T-28 crash in at the Thunder Over the Blue Ridge Open House Air Show in Martinsburg yet? from what I've read only the pilot was involved in this one. :'( |:)\
Has any one heard about the T-28 crash in at the Thunder Over the Blue Ridge Open House Air Show in Martinsburg yet? from what I've read only the pilot was involved in this one. :'( |:)\
I can't figure out what happened there. It doesn't look like they hit mid-air and he finishes almost all of his barrel roll and then stops short for some reason. This is a weird one.
What a shame! 2 crashes in one weekend?!!
I hope this doesn't get those overly liberal "let's fix the world for everybody because we know better" to shut down airshows now.....
Aviation needs airshows!
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: G-man on September 18, 2011, 05:00:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ORMFEHQAc
Cannot figure it out either....
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Mike on September 18, 2011, 07:00:19 PM
Copied from another forum, and said to be taken at Reno. Another still photo I saw of Galloping Ghost right before impact showed the tailwheel extended. It indicates some major structural damage occured seconds before he hit the box seats.
RIP Jimmy Leeward, and my condolances to those who lost loved ones in the box seats.
RC
I saw another picture of the plane just before the impact and you can't see the pilot in the cockpit. Weird!
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: chuckar101 on September 18, 2011, 08:50:15 PM
My dad was at the races down near the rare bears pit. Several people there said he was getting flutter and something had fallen off right before he went vertical. My dad said he heard him goosing the power trying to get the nose back around.
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: G-man on September 18, 2011, 09:17:56 PM
I saw another picture of the plane just before the impact and you can't see the pilot in the cockpit. Weird!
It is thought he passed out and slumped forward due to the excessive g-forces in the climb.
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: YawningMan on September 19, 2011, 12:52:59 AM
That doesn't make sense, though. Unless he was trying to get out of the cockpit, he should still be in view. Well, I'm not an expert on Mustangs, but I know a few things about high-performance airplane harnesses. They strap themselves in so tight they can barely move. Even if his head was slumped, I don't think it would completely disappear from view at that angle.
I don't have enough evidence to back up what I'm saying, so just label it speculation and take it for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Mike on September 19, 2011, 04:42:48 PM
That doesn't make sense, though. Unless he was trying to get out of the cockpit, he should still be in view. Well, I'm not an expert on Mustangs, but I know a few things about high-performance airplane harnesses. They strap themselves in so tight they can barely move. Even if his head was slumped, I don't think it would completely disappear from view at that angle.
I don't have enough evidence to back up what I'm saying, so just label it speculation and take it for what it's worth.
That's what the people were saying from whom I got the picture. At least some of his helmet should have been visible.
One theory is that there was some major malfunction inside the cockpit (floor collapsing?) which could have pushed everything backwards and down into the tail.....
It's good that the public thinks he is a hero and he tried his best to avoid the crowd but I have a feeling he passed out as soon as the plane pitched up as hard as it did. Just my humble opinion....
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 03, 2011, 06:16:51 AM
It is likely that Jimmy was dead even before Galloping Ghost hit the ground. According to this video, it is possible that the G forces inflicted on his plane may have been as high as 20 G's! This would explain why his tailwheel would have extended (structural failure) and if that did happen, it could explain why Jimmy wasn't seen in the cockpit since it is likely his seat buckled from the over-G stressloads. Such a high G load would probably have snapped his neck as well.
makes sense I guess... It's kinda what I was suspecting as well just watching the whole thing on tape.
did you read a report somewhere? I can't view the video, it says "it's private".....
Aw crap! This doggone video was going viral last night and now it's been taken private!?!?!? I can't even open it now. ::complaining: ::banghead::
If it comes back up somewhere else I'll post it. Sorry everyone.
RC
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 03, 2011, 07:16:02 PM
A quick check on this reveals that the video was pirated from a subscription website called PJTV. They have a regular commentator named Bill Whittle who does a program called Afterburner. The program, "Live Free or Die" is now only available if you subscribe to PJTV. Too bad. This guy had some great analysis and commentary, and lambasted the idiots in the media that are calling for the Air Races to be shut down.
I am sorry I got everyone's hopes up, but good old American Capitalistic greed has triumphed yet again. ::banghead::
RC
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2011, 09:33:33 PM
. . . . . and lambasted the idiots in the media that are calling for the Air Races to be shut down.
I'm gonna get a petition going to shut down freeways since they seem to kill people every day!
Just trying to make the world a safer place fore everybody. That's all...... ::whistle::
True dat! |:)\
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2011, 09:12:26 PM
just got this in an email. seems like a pretty good explanation to me.....
Good News for the future of air racing.
Our new crew member, Matt Jackson, is not only a race pilot, aircraft business owner and aircraft owner (he also takes care of Tom Cruises P-51) but he is also the VP of the Unlimited Racing Class and head of the Safety Committee.
We had a long talk about the Reno crash on the way to Mojave today.
Matt believes the cause of the crash was due to The Galloping Ghost having a CG too close to the aft limit which resulted in pitch instability. There are instructions on the P-51 regarding no combat missions with the aft fuel tank full resulting in an aft CG problem. Instructions specify to empty the aft fuel tank first in flight.
During qualifying Matt watched Galloping Ghost from inside the cockpit of Furias and could not believe how much trouble Leeward was having in keeping the Ghost in a stable pattern around the course.
Since Leeward lives in Florida and the Galloping Ghost was modified for racing in Calif., when Leeward picked up the Ghost for the Reno races at the last minute, a complete flight test program had not been done based on available information.
There is a video of the entire last lap of the Ghost before the crash which Matt showed me. As Leeward was coming around pylon #8 at about 480 mph after passing Rare Bear, he hit turbulence which pitched his left wing down, Leeward corrected with hard right rudder and aileron. Just as the aircraft was straightening out, he hit a second mountain of turbulence which caused the tail to 'dig in' resulting in a 10+ G climb rendering Leeward unconscious instantly and resulted in the tail wheel falling out. (broken tail wheel support structure was found on the course). As the Ghost shot upward the LH aileron trim tab broke loose. This can be heard on the tape, so the trim tab did not cause the accident.
Since the Ghost was racing at 480 mph with full right rudder and the stick full right, this is where everything stayed when Leeward blacked out. Cockpit camera film that was salvaged from the wreck shows Leeward slumped over to the right in the cockpit. As a result, the Ghost climbed up and to the right, rolled over on her back and then headed for the box seats. Most in the box seats never saw it coming because it came in from behind them.
Matt has had long conversations with the NTSB who call the accident a 'fluke'. They are not going to recommend canceling future races. He has also talked to the insurance companies covering the races for Reno and they also say they are not going to cancel their coverage of future races. Now we wait for the FAA to make a decision.
Ironically, Matt bought box seats tickets for his good friends who stayed with him for a few days before the races. They were the husband and wife who were killed.
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: tundra_flier on October 08, 2011, 07:16:39 AM
I'm deeply grieved the hear about this accident. Reno was the first major airshow I ever attended back in 1999. I watched Miss Ashly II crash, another Mustang based experimental that was ruled as flutter. I'll definitly be making it a priority to be there again since it's time is limited by housing encroachment anyway.
I have to admit, the seat failure sounded very plausible to me. We had a family of 4 die here in Alaska this summer when the pilots seat on a Cessna 185 failed right after takeoff.
Phil
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: G-man on October 13, 2011, 04:17:05 PM
Video back up
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&load=6097&mpid=56
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on October 13, 2011, 04:40:50 PM
it seems it might get boycotted by the big news stations.......
I already have. I posted it to my FB acct and emailed it to just about any acquaintance that I thought would watch it.
RC
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Mike on October 18, 2011, 01:26:21 AM
well, it seems like the Indy Car people now have to face the same questions by the media .... that was a pretty horrific crash right next door to me....
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: ViverGulia on November 24, 2011, 01:47:15 AM
I have an issue of Sport Aviation (May 2011) with an article about the Galloping Ghost. Here is an excerpt from the very end of the article: "So with all this time, money, and brainpower that has been poured into bringing The Galloping Ghost back to life, exactly how fast is it? [new paragraph] With Jimmy's trademark impish grin, he said, "There are some things you never tell your competition, and that's one of them. But it's fast. Really fast." [new paragraph] We'll have to wait until September to see just how fast-and if Tiger is willing to climb into Strega and take on The Galloping Ghost.
Such a sad ending for so brave a try. :'(
Title: Re: Reno Air Races Crash!
Post by: Stef on November 24, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Wow! I didn't expect it to turn that political, but indeed, he is spot on!
I hate how so many people accept that they're too stupid to make their own decisions and leave it up to the "experts". Just look at our economies to see how that worked out...
I think the most important thing you can do to better the world is to not let others patronize you all the time.
