Roost Air Lounge => Aviation related topics => Topic started by: airtac on November 01, 2007, 05:42:54 PM
Title: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: airtac on November 01, 2007, 05:42:54 PM
Just read that this morning--he passed yesterday at age 92 and to his dying day never regretted dropping the first atomic bomb. I was lucky to get a picture of the Enola Gay autographed by him and Dutch Van Kirk, (navigator) at an airshow a few years back. Thier mission was controversial but the statement that Japan's surrender prior to an all out invasion saved an estimated 1 million civilian casulties alone is a fact. I bid him God speed and fair winds. |:)\
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on November 01, 2007, 09:02:48 PM
Another great American has gone West. Tailwinds, General Tibbets. |:)\ |:)\ |:)\ |:)\ |:)\
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: FlyboyGil on November 08, 2007, 06:43:00 PM
You know what pisses me off about this whole thing? He Doesn't want a marked grave for himself because of protesters of the bomb. People use his grave to do that? People are ignorant. They don't know history. The death toll on both sides would've been enormous had they not dropped the bombs. And now Paul can't have a tombstone because of ignorance on other's parts. (insert many swearwords here) >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining:
When I was in college I did a presentation in one of my classes on the Lancaster Bomber I worked on. After class I was sorting out my pictures in the Cafeteria. A girl who was in several classes of mine looked at the pics, and went eww gross. War. She said they should have negotiated instead. I agree in negotiating, and when I said they did negotiate (Munich Conference of 1938 anyone?), she no they didn't. IGNORANCE!!!!! The scary thing is this ignorant person is going to be teacher. I hope she never makes her goals, just because of that fact. She will teach the totally wrong history to a group of young people who will know nothing. Don't get me wrong she was a nice girl, but to totally revise history? No that's so wrong and immoral. Especially since our vets fought and died for her freedom. And her response to the Lanc? Turn it into scrap metal!!!! Boy ignorance!!!! ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining: ::loony:: ::loony:: ::loony:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead::
Negotiate for sure, but when the enemy says no war, and then makes war, what can you do? Unfortunately our generations are the last of the people who honour and respect our veterans parts and actions during the conflicts. We've pretty much forgotten about WW1 already, and what happens when all our WW2 Vets pass on? There's going to be fewer and fewer people who defend the heroic deeds of the past.
So I wish Paul Tibbets blue skies. And I'm glad he doesn't regret dropping the bomb. He saved millions.
Ok enough of my ranting and raving.
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: Fabo on November 08, 2007, 07:19:33 PM
What you gonna do? Turn in another small, insignificant country like Czechoslovakia? Would not be the first, nor second time.
Sorry, as much as I hate her state on the subject, I had to say that. Munich 1938 was not so much about peace negotiation in my point of view. From what I know about it, and yeah I do have done some research on this (WW II and Cold War are kind of my hobby), it was simply like "Take something but us and we will have no real objections" part of the deal from GB and French. And so was it - part of Northern Moravia and Northern Slovakia went to Poland, Bohemia and rest of Moravia to Germans, south of Slovakia to Hungary and in the rest of Slovakia Germany built up a puppet state.
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: FlyboyGil on November 08, 2007, 08:31:15 PM
What you gonna do? Turn in another small, insignificant country like Czechoslovakia? Would not be the first, nor second time.
Sorry, as much as I hate her state on the subject, I had to say that. Munich 1938 was not so much about peace negotiation in my point of view. From what I know about it, and yeah I do have done some research on this (WW II and Cold War are kind of my hobby), it was simply like "Take something but us and we will have no real objections" part of the deal from GB and French. And so was it - part of Northern Moravia and Northern Slovakia went to Poland, Bohemia and rest of Moravia to Germans, south of Slovakia to Hungary and in the rest of Slovakia Germany built up a puppet state.
I don't agree with trying to part out Czechoslovakia or any other countries, but they did try to negotiate a settlement. Hitler then said he would not invade. And was that the original bargaining chip, or was that the last card that they had in parting out those countries. The point though was what she totally ignored the negotiation. She didn't even bother to look it up. All she did was ignore what had happened and then say that there was no attempt at all. Hitler even signed a non-aggression pact with Russia. Look what happened with that. Yes The Russians were invading other parts of Europe, but the point is there was negotiation and that has been taught in all schools here. She never even acknowledged it. Thats what I'm saying. She was ignorant in the fact, and now the Veterans and those who died in the wars will pay the price.
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: Fabo on November 08, 2007, 09:35:55 PM
Yes, I totally agree with you on this point. Actually, the more I know about the war and things about it, the more I am annoyed by different people - either the kind you mentioned or "neonazis" who are openly admiring politics of Hitler, persons like Hitler or Rudolf Hess. Needless to say, they know NOTHING about real nazi ideology, and any time I tried to argue them (only safely through the internet though, I see Neonazi in the city = I turn around), giving arguments from specific places, often from their pseudo-bible Mein Kampf, most frequently, when they want to "save Slovakia" etc. with Hitlers words of Slavs as scum nation and plans of wiping out them, they would not do anything but pure insults.
What I would like to add here, is one video I find nice. And I think it is slovak made in original. http://youtube.com/watch?v=EI6mfwLMwdc
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: airtac on November 08, 2007, 09:40:55 PM
"Now, THAT'S a funny video, Thanks FABO |:)\
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: FlyboyGil on November 08, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
HAHAHAHA!!!! :D :D :D :D That's an awsome video!!!
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: Franz on November 08, 2007, 11:02:44 PM
You know what pisses me off about this whole thing? He Doesn't want a marked grave for himself because of protesters of the bomb. People use his grave to do that? People are ignorant. They don't know history. The death toll on both sides would've been enormous had they not dropped the bombs. And now Paul can't have a tombstone because of ignorance on other's parts. (insert many swearwords here) >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining:
[irony]It was of course his decision to drop the bomb, and if he hadn't no other pilot could have.[/irony] Why can't people get stuff straight ???
When I was in college I did a presentation in one of my classes on the Lancaster Bomber I worked on. After class I was sorting out my pictures in the Cafeteria. A girl who was in several classes of mine looked at the pics, and went eww gross. War. She said they should have negotiated instead. I agree in negotiating, and when I said they did negotiate (Munich Conference of 1938 anyone?), she no they didn't. IGNORANCE!!!!! The scary thing is this ignorant person is going to be teacher. I hope she never makes her goals, just because of that fact. She will teach the totally wrong history to a group of young people who will know nothing. Don't get me wrong she was a nice girl, but to totally revise history? No that's so wrong and immoral. Especially since our vets fought and died for her freedom. And her response to the Lanc? Turn it into scrap metal!!!! Boy ignorance!!!! ::complaining: ::complaining: ::complaining: ::loony:: ::loony:: ::loony:: ::banghead:: ::banghead:: ::banghead::
Negotiate for sure, but when the enemy says no war, and then makes war, what can you do? Unfortunately our generations are the last of the people who honour and respect our veterans parts and actions during the conflicts. We've pretty much forgotten about WW1 already, and what happens when all our WW2 Vets pass on? There's going to be fewer and fewer people who defend the heroic deeds of the past.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (attributed to Voltaire) Thank God there are such people, so why is everybody giving them a hard time when they do ? I'm glad American, British, Russian, . . . Soldiers defeated the German Army so that I can now live in a democracy, not a dictatorship. Of course, it had been better if there had been a way to achieve this without killing several million people, but there wasn't.
So I wish Paul Tibbets blue skies. And I'm glad he doesn't regret dropping the bomb. He saved millions.
Nothing to add to that |:)\
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: FlyboyGil on November 08, 2007, 11:59:57 PM
Quote
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (attributed to Voltaire) Thank God there are such people, so why is everybody giving them a hard time when they do ? I'm glad American, British, Russian, . . . Soldiers defeated the German Army so that I can now live in a democracy, not a dictatorship. Of course, it had been better if there had been a way to achieve this without killing several million people, but there wasn't.
Hear Hear!! :) :)
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: FlyboyGil on November 09, 2007, 01:33:41 AM
I actually gotta tone my attitude down a bit. Saying people are ignorant and all that. It's just when I heard about him not wanting a grave stone or marked grave because of protests, it just made my blood boil!!
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: PiperGirl on November 09, 2007, 02:56:14 AM
As much as I wish that he could have had a marked grave, I admire his wish to keep peace here after he's gone. That takes a pretty thoughful person to forgo the usual "last rites and final respects" in order to create less conflict.
Fabo, the video was funny!
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: Frank N. O. on November 09, 2007, 05:53:03 AM
Sadly war is not always avoidable and when it's not then it's nice that some people can and will save/protect the other parts of the nation(s) |:)\
Frank
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: Rooster Cruiser on November 09, 2007, 06:33:56 AM
Quote
[irony]It was of course his decision to drop the bomb, and if he hadn't no other pilot could have.[/irony]
Actually, it wasn't Franz. That decision came from President Truman. Then Col Tibbets had his marching orders, and he carried them out with no questions asked. He also apparently carried them out with a clear conscience and he was unapologetic about doing his duty up until the day he died. The burden of responsibility wasn't his however.
We all have to live with the consequences of that particular genie being let out of the bottle. The worst thing people have done in recent decades has been to blame Tibbets. They should blame Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo.
Anyway, I digress. Tibbets was an honorable man, and I salute him in passing.
|:)\ |:)\ |:)\ |:)\ |:)\ |:)\
Title: Re: Enola Gay pilot, Paul Tibbetts died
Post by: TheSoccerMom on November 14, 2007, 03:15:24 AM
.......the statement that Japan's surrender prior to an all out invasion saved an estimated 1 million civilian casulties alone is a fact. I bid him God speed and fair winds. |:)\
The NY Times had a very interesting article the other day, by a friend of Tibbetts, which shed a lot of light on his outlook, and his own quiet view of where he fit in history.
