Sky Uber
We recently stumbled over the Portugal Skyuber story through reddit and thought it was interesting. Personally I have no idea how that would work in the States, or in any other country for that matter. I think you would need at least a commercial rating and then I’m not sure if I would get into a small plane with just anybody. The longer I fly, the more careful I get. What do you guys think?
The regular Uber on the other hand is an awesome idea! They finally made it into Vegas which makes me really happy, since the cabs here were more or less a Mafia-esque monopoly-style operation doing whatever they wanted to do. There were even times when I couldn’t get to the airport (Yes, “ABC Union Cab Company of Las Vegas”, I’m calling you out specifically) because the driver decided to “not accept” the fare since it wasn’t worth his time. Apparently I live too close to the airport. Yet nobody told me of this decision until after I called in for the 3rd time wondering where my cab was. Then there was no excuse or apology.
Another time I had a guy tell me to “get the f… out of my cab” as we arrived at my house because once again the trip wasn’t long enough and the fare not enough for him. Of course this (Union Cab, again) driver waited for me to pay him first before becoming all angry. I could go on but I won’t…
There will be no love lost on my part if all of these guys go broke thanks to Uber. And you can tell that they have already started to pick up their game slightly right when the news broke about Uber.
Rant over!
Back to flying! You think a Skyuber is a good idea, or even possible?
“… I’m not sure if I would get into a small plane with just anybody. …”
Yet you are willing to get into a car with just anybody. Granted they have to go through the Uber process but all that really means is that their bad driving hasn’t been caught yet.
I am not defending the cab companies — as you point out they are often rude and unresponsive — but they are suppose to provide a bit of training and offer a company to back up their legal responsibilities.
As for Skyuber. Great idea. I wouldn’t mind hitching a ride with someone from my local (and small) airport to another small airport neither which are served by the commercial lines. However I do not see it ever becoming possible in the States. The FAA, slow to change, will not embrace the idea for years if ever.
I am with Rick on this point.
Also think about insurance and yearly Safety checks like APK TUV or MoT.
(At leest in Europe; do they have something like that in USA?)
For Flying it would not be safe enough and for cars it would be OK?
And the whole Flying community tries to tell me Flying is safer than driving????
Merijn
Well, you got me there, Rick. I wouldn’t say I just blindly jump into any car with anybody. I have only used Uber a few times so far. My wife has the app, I don’t. And even the “professional” cab drivers can be pretty bad drivers at times…
Here is my worry about Uber Flying and hitching a ride with your buddy from the local field:
All that sounds pretty great as long as it’s a standard flight on a nice day. I’d jump in for a quick flight as well.
But after over 8,000 flight hours and over 20 years in the industry I am able to reflect on some mistakes I have made in my past and on what I have seen many of my young pilots do back when I was in the chief pilot position. The worst of them have been overconfidence, “get-there-itis”, misjudging the weather, and finishing the mission at all cost to please the customer. I have found them to be made more often in the earlier days of ones aviation career and found myself deciding to not fly on silly missions much less and way sooner since I am not quite as worried about losing my job as I was at my first pilot job. I have nothing to prove anymore, been there, done that.
We have had some close calls in our own outfit and I have lost friends to every one of these scenarios and keep in mind these were 2,000hr+ pilots.
So if you put an even less experienced guy in these situations (especially with less oversight by surpassing the 135 requirements somehow), it may not be worse but it definitely will not be as safe or even safer. “Controlled flight into terrain” and “loss of control in flight” are the leading causes of general aviation accidents. So would you still go on a flight to a destination you really need to go to if the weather is starting to go bad and you know your buddy from the local airport has no instrument rating or commercial certificate?
And that is also why when I tell people that flying is safer than driving, I usually refer to airline flying, not so much general aviation or what us crazy guys do flying helicopters 😉
Humm never heard of it. Here in Portugal private pilots are not allowed to fly for money also, it’s illegal, you need a commercial license. But should be a great idea for brand new pilots who just got out of school and are doing some time building, could it be that? I’ll investigate 🙂
I now know that it’s actually private pilots. It’s possible because it’s not a payment for a service, it’s “expense sharing”. Just like if you were traveling with your colleague and split the gas and toll coats. That’s why it isn’t “shot” by Easa 🙂
Not sure how it would work here in EASA country, but cost-sharing rules are nowhere near as strict as the FAA’s. I’ve taken a colleague to a meeting and got reimbursed for the flight, which I understand is illegal in the US.
On the other hand, car-uber has been found illegal in Germany, because you need a taxi licence to drive people for remuneration. So I assume any commercial scheme for flight-sharing will probably be illegal as well. But there are some very small-scale non-profit flight-sharing sites, such as the “Mitflugbörse” on eddh.de. (“Small” is an understatement: it currently has 4 offers and 6 requests listed. Total.)
Private pilots are already subject to training and tests that are far more stringent than anything required of even commercial drivers. Nor have I seen any evidence that licensed taxi drivers in the USA are any safer than the average driver.
Commercial aviation is much safer than general aviation, but that isn’t necessarily due to stricter licensing requirements for commercial pilots. Commercial pilots fly more hours – but I suspect they are more likely to be flying on inadequate rest. It could be mostly that the airplanes are different – a 747 can survive a lot more than a Cessna 172. More than half of general aviation aircraft aren’t equipped for IFR (nor are the pilots trained for it, usually), so unexpected low-lying clouds are enough to create a dangerous situation. While the FAA regulates maintenance of both general aviation and commercial aircraft, I suspect it puts a lot more effort into enforcement of those regulations for airliners.
But flying in a general aviation aircraft does not become any more dangerous just because the passenger is paying. So I’m fine with sky-uber, provided the customer understands the risks – he’s flying in a smaller and not-so-safe airplane, with a higher chance that the mechanic got away with a few shortcuts and parts of dubious origin, and probably a less-experienced pilot.
Private pilots are already subject to training and tests that are far more stringent than anything required of even commercial drivers. Nor have I seen any evidence that licensed taxi drivers in the USA are any safer than the average driver.
Commercial aviation is much safer than general aviation, but that isn’t necessarily due to stricter licensing requirements for commercial pilots. Commercial pilots fly more hours – but I suspect they are more likely to be flying on inadequate rest. It could be mostly that the airplanes are different – a 747 can survive a lot more than a Cessna 172. More than half of general aviation aircraft aren’t equipped for IFR (nor are the pilots trained for it, usually), so unexpected low-lying clouds are enough to create a dangerous situation. While the FAA regulates maintenance of both general aviation and commercial aircraft, I suspect it puts a lot more effort into enforcement of those regulations for airliners.
But flying in a general aviation aircraft does not become any more dangerous just because the passenger is paying. So I’m fine with sky-uber, provided the customer understands the risks – he’s flying in a smaller and not-so-safe airplane, with a higher chance that the mechanic got away with a few shortcuts and parts of dubious origin, and probably a less-experienced pilot.
Yet another great notion from Portugal!
It’s not supposed to be a taxi service, as far as I know.
The idea is that private pilots are able to fly more frequently, because their passengers share the costs of the flight, and are able to be more experienced, able pilots.
(yup, I’m portuguese)
@merijn: regarding
the whole Flying community tries to tell me Flying is safer than driving?
I always understood that statement to apply to travelling on an airline, NOT to private flying which has been stated (by some) to be on the same level of safety (or danger, if you will) as motorcycling. Doesn’t keep me away from either, though.
I’ve been through ‘cab training’, and no… it didn’t grant me any special powers or abilities beyond what any normal driver would have. A lot of this protectionist nonsense has more to do with established groups using the power of the FAA and other agencies to price upstarts out of the market, making it impossible for them to become competition.
If you’re safe enough to fly four people in a Cessna from point A to point B… the fact that money changes hands has no real bearing on the safety of the flight, all else (pilot ability and good decisions) being equal.
Big Cab companies have bottom of the barrel drivers, barely running claptrap cars that smell of years of body grime, sweat, and who knows what else. Everyone I knew who was even halfway decent owned their car and took care of it and their passengers… but they were far outnumbered. Uber drivers are, for the most part, entirely opposite, with their rating system, clean cars, etc.
I’d jump back into a plane quickly if I thought I could make a go of it like that.
Joao has a great point. The best thing to make a safe pilot is lots of experience. If you could afford to fly more, stay sharper, especially while you’re trying to show some professionalism (you want the passengers to rate you well, after all), I would think that, among pilots in general, the higher rated uber-pilots would have a very good safety rating.
“ABC Union Cab Company of Las Vegas”. It has UNION right there in the name and you expected GOOD service? I have never seen any service or good that was improved by being made by a union member vs a non-union person. Usually the service or good is inferior because the union always protect members, even if that member is worthless.
The thing that scares me about “jumping into an airplane with just anybody” is the lack of accountability. In an airline/135 environment the pilot is responsible to the chief pilot for his actions–he takes check rides consistently, and any deviation from the operating standards is known by the chief pilot (I don’t know how they figure it out but they do…)
Most private pilots don’t have an operations manual or similar–everyone has slightly different standards. I’m very careful who I get in an airplane with–and even then I have to sit up front unless it’s one of a very short list of pilots flying.
@Deathknyte: Well, compare a Charleston-made (non-union) Boeing 787 to an Everett-made one. Some of them are so bad, Boeing can´t even SELL them.
Trantor, I believe that is the first time I have ever heard of union work being superior to non-union work. Maybe its time for Beoing to clean house in Charleston and hire new people willing to do the job right. A lot easier without a union holding things up.
Deathknyte: So far as I know, that’s ‘Union’ as in ‘play on patriotic heartstrings’, not ‘union’ as in ‘the only thing that makes people earn 11 dollars an hour instead of a day like they’re worth if they aren’t STEM professionals’.
You know, as in “The Union” that should never have been ‘preserved’ by Lincoln because declaring war on his seceded former states was the most unconstitutional action by any president until The Usurper Obama entered the Oval Office’ (note: I’m just assuming that those are your feelings on those parts 😼 )
Well, here we go. It’s becoming a reality in the helicopter world…
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Airbus-Partners-With-Uber-For-Helicopter-Service-225541-1.html